North Atlantic Ops

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wallypilot
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North Atlantic Ops

#1 Post by wallypilot » Thu May 24, 2018 11:22 am

Not sure how many of you folks out there are crossing the Atlantic on a regular or semi regular basis. I know there are some for sure. As a pilot in the corporate world, i find that often we dont have the level of support that the airline crews get for many things, but over the years I have found it especially time consuming and frustrating to get good information on International ops, especially North Atlantic ops which seem to be the most complex of any of the oceanic regions.

In any case, my intent here is merely to start a discussion, and establish a thread to leave resources or nuggets of wisdom from those with experience. I myself cross the Atlantic several times a year, and i find you just cant memorize everything, so I keep lots of notes in my mobile device, as well as subscribe to various group emails from places like the Flight Service Bureau. At my operation we also do a recurrent international ops course every couple years or so.

For this first post, i received the FSB ops group email recently and find this graphic they provide to be a very good resource as a quick reference to NAT HLA requirements. I hope some of you find this useful if you havent seen it before.

cheers
WP
Latest NAT HLA.JPG
Latest NAT HLA.JPG (98.29 KiB) Viewed 1905 times
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Ki-ll
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#2 Post by Ki-ll » Thu May 24, 2018 6:38 pm

I concur, Ops Group is an excellent resource for International Operations. Merely for the fact that you can ask a question and someone out there probably has an answer. Sometimes this someone is also from a region/airport you are flying to.
There has been A LOT of changes to the NAT HLA airspace since last December.
I love the Iceland AIP app for iPad/iPhone - https://www.isavia.is/en/corporate/c-pr ... celand-app
Of course you cannot do without the NAT DOC 007 and all the rest of them:
https://www.icao.int/eurnat/eur%20and%2 ... 4ED0FA9%7D
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rippey
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#3 Post by rippey » Fri May 25, 2018 2:57 pm

Another good resource that is more airport specific is the universal aviation blog - available even if you don’t have any subscription services with them. Great resource for airports requiring slots, special events (Super Bowl, F1, olympics, World Cup, etc.) and the airports that can be trickier - PEK, HKG, TLV: “ASOC - what’s your favourite colour?”

http://www.universalweather.com/blog/

Just do a search of the airport you are looking for and there is usually an entry about it covering slots, restrictions, even hotels etc. It is not the easiest to navigate sometimes as they tend to write multiple parts for the same airport, and often forget to link them, but if you do a search you can usually find all of them.

The NAT airspace is complicated, but as long as you remain aware of the requirements of the OTS, and they give most of the specifics on the track message anyways I feel it has certainly gotten easier with FANS - no more approaching 30W while still trying to get your your 20W report to Shanwick because of frequency congestion. Although I am starting to feel like the position report is becoming a lost art based on what I hear out there when someone can’t logon for whatever reason and has to resort to voice. Nothing drives me quite as crazy as listening to someone have to be coached by Gander through every part of the position report while I am just trying to get a selcal check - i can’t imagine what would happen if they were told to ‘send met’ like the good old days!
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NovaBoy
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#4 Post by NovaBoy » Fri May 25, 2018 5:10 pm

Air Training International has a good online course with videos that walk you through a crossing. Good if you only do a crossing or two a year.
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CL-Skadoo!
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#5 Post by CL-Skadoo! » Fri May 25, 2018 6:30 pm

This is a terrific resource, I know I used to get pretty worked up about crossings and this stuff would have been terrific as a sanity check. Good job all.
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Ki-ll
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#6 Post by Ki-ll » Fri May 25, 2018 6:45 pm

rippey wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:57 pm
Nothing drives me quite as crazy as listening to someone have to be coached by Gander through every part of the position report while I am just trying to get a selcal check - i can’t imagine what would happen if they were told to ‘send met’ like the good old days!
There is this one particular Gander Radio operator who is always a delight to listen to when he is pissed off :prayer:
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Roar
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#7 Post by Roar » Sun May 27, 2018 9:15 am

So true. I'd encourage anyone new to NAT crossings or maybe even those that have not done one in awhile to take a look at NAT DOC 007 communications section and familiarize themselves with what and how to make position reports, request clearances etc. Even write each one out on a note pad verbatim with your specific data before keying the mic so you can simply read it off correctly and efficiently, at least until you become comfortable with the format.
rippey wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:57 pm
Another good resource that is more airport specific is the universal aviation blog - available even if you don’t have any subscription services with them. Great resource for airports requiring slots, special events (Super Bowl, F1, olympics, World Cup, etc.) and the airports that can be trickier - PEK, HKG, TLV: “ASOC - what’s your favourite colour?”

http://www.universalweather.com/blog/

Just do a search of the airport you are looking for and there is usually an entry about it covering slots, restrictions, even hotels etc. It is not the easiest to navigate sometimes as they tend to write multiple parts for the same airport, and often forget to link them, but if you do a search you can usually find all of them.

The NAT airspace is complicated, but as long as you remain aware of the requirements of the OTS, and they give most of the specifics on the track message anyways I feel it has certainly gotten easier with FANS - no more approaching 30W while still trying to get your your 20W report to Shanwick because of frequency congestion. Although I am starting to feel like the position report is becoming a lost art based on what I hear out there when someone can’t logon for whatever reason and has to resort to voice. Nothing drives me quite as crazy as listening to someone have to be coached by Gander through every part of the position report while I am just trying to get a selcal check - i can’t imagine what would happen if they were told to ‘send met’ like the good old days!
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rippey
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#8 Post by rippey » Mon May 28, 2018 2:56 pm

There is this one particular Gander Radio operator who is always a delight to listen to when he is pissed off
Yep - heard him rip into a guy who didn’t know how to do a position report just last week! Also it seems even airline guys miss the memos on occasion - last night coasting in heard Moncton working with Delta for a clearance as they had filed 350 on a PCBS track but weren’t equipped apparently - pilot couldn’t figure out why he had to take 340 or move to an adjacent track. I guess it’s possible they were PCBS but dispatch missed an equipment code on the flight plan. Makes me happy I cross at 430 or 450!

I haven’t looked at the recent bombardier advisory wires but anyone operating legacy honeywell promises 2000 equipment with CPDLC know anything about changing the latency timer - or do we just go with timer not available?
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Ki-ll
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#9 Post by Ki-ll » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:59 pm

A change has been introduced into ICAO Doc 7030 for North Altlantic. The essence is that there now is no requirement for SELCAL check while in VHF coverage.
https://www.icao.int/EURNAT/EUR%20and%2 ... 20Amd9.pdf
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goingmach_1
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Re: North Atlantic Ops

#10 Post by goingmach_1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:53 pm

Check this web site out:
www.code7700.com

Click on the normals drop down and look at international operation manual, and two other ones below. When open click on each link to expand. Its written by a USA pilot, but very relevant never the less.
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