Do people aspire to be corporate pilots?

[watermeth]

interesting question and answers.
I always thought airlines would be boring compared to corporate, and I'm sure it is. I applied and got interviewed by the majors in Canada but was never convinced enough to give my best in what looked like a scripted interview game.
the level of professionalism in the corporate world, the extreme quality of ground staff at various FBO worldwide, flying to unknown countries and airport each time make it truly unique and extremely demanding and requires a level of implication that most airline pilot couldn't cope with. you have to rely on yourself and very rarely did I hear a corporate pilot answer "I don't know", which was not the case with several airline pilots I discussed with...
as for money, there's as much pay scales as there are private jets out there. in the end it's up to you to determine what you're worth...

[andy_mtl]

Personally , I started school thinking : AIRLINE!
Then I worked 6 years as a flight attendant, and that quickly made me re think it big time.

Now enjoying some of NW ontario in the 703 world, my next move will ideally be for a corporate job.

I'm sure both worlds have their pros and cons , to each its own.

Andy

[JeppsOnFire]

Like most I'm sure, I started out as a kid watching the airliners come and go and wanted to do that, all day everyday. And, like most, I wasn't aware of what 'corporate' or 'general aviation' really meant outside of the single engine pistons buzzing around. As I gained experience, in the airplane and in the business I started to consider going the little jet route, even though I little bit felt like I wasn't a pilot unless I was driving a Boeing around. I ended up staying corporate and never ended up even applying at the airlines. Not for fear I wouldn't be hired, but after a guy is in it for a number of successful years, living in my hometown with a great schedule and pay (and a family now) you can see how it would be difficult to make such a big step backwards for potentially years. There simply was never a good time to switch.
On the other hand, I have many friends at Westjet and AC and that fits their goals, lifestyle and stage in life. Single or married, not many seem to be quitting to go corporate, although I do know of 3 who have. They will be later in life buying houses and saving for retirement but they will indeed catch up quickly after their captain upgrades.
Airlines are great for young people and older people. The young folks can party on the road and see the world and maybe hookup with their favorite flighty. The old folks command a great schedule and make serious money while not working too much. During the long middle years, the airline lifestyle can put incredible pressure on a young family and for financial planning.
Corporate can suck when you're young (flying with older captains who don't usually get crazy on the road and the pay often isn't great as an FO). As a person reaches the empty-nest arena, the job security, schedule and overall pay won't nearly match what a senior pilot at the airlines would get. However, the middle years are fantastic. With plenty of time at home with a young family, buying a home much younger and making very good money to save for the future is why many people stay.
Which is better? Like all other opinions, that is completely subjective.

[Jet Jockey]

Did both jobs and both have their pros and cons.

Started in the charter corporate business then went to City Express on the Dash 7 (bad pay and conditions but it was fun). Got hired at Air Alliance (became part of Jazz) on the Dash 8 when they started their operation. I was on their third course.

Then I got the chance to fly for Inter-Canadien (the Quebecair jet division) on the FK28 and was based out of France for 3 years (that was a great job!) but then the owner decided to separate from Canadian Airlines and go on his own... BIG mistake and we pilots knew the writing was on the wall. Also at this time (early 90s) the airline world in the USA and Canada was going to change big time because of deregulation. It did and the airline pilot job changed for ever (for the worse IMHO). Layoffs, big pay cuts even for the pilots at AC and so on. Then 9/11 happened making airline flying even more boring (closed cockpit policy).

Anyway I decided then (while in Paris) to go back to the corporate world and I have never looked back. Been with this company for 24 years now and I'm very happy. Work conditions are excellent so is the pay. I fly top notch equipment that is always extremely well maintained (better than the airlines). Flights can be small hops of 25 minutes to long range flights of 12 hours. Destinations are worldwide from the USA to Europe to the Middle-East to Asia. Per diems are generous, we stay at top notch hotels and when on extended lay overs we can rent cars and travel. We fly on average 250 hours a year (3 to 4 times less than some airlines) and our pay is better than 90% of the airline pilots (except for the most senior pilots on the biggest aircraft at AC).

In the end it all depends what you want and expect from your flying job. The airline world is not as secure as it used to be, doesn’t pay as well (compared to the 60s, 70s and 80s) but still as some upsides to it like a more stable monthly schedule (important to some for their life style). Some prefer the regular/set destinations and the fact that they just go in and fly the aircraft (no passenger interaction).

On the other hand usually the corporate world is the opposite, lots of passenger interaction, a monthly schedule that must remain flexible (although we have our “days off”) and destinations that can be different to all sorts of places in the world depending on your equipment.

On the subject of “days off”… for my company we usually get 10 days off a month but if a trip overlaps your requested “days off” we will get paid overtime or if we wish, we can arrange to switch them to different dates. But really the aircrafts never fly 30 days in a month so basically you are “OFF” for 10 days and on standby (2 hour call out) for the remaining 20 days unless the trips are already scheduled.

Finally it comes down to saying… To each his own!

[Scuba_Steve]

Perhaps I'm an oddity here but I'll weigh in... I'm a former corporate pilot who is now flying for an airline.. I love my job and after making the jump to the big(er) jets the mystique is gone and Tbh I had more fun flying smaller stuff and when I taxi by a citation X or a Challenger 300 I get more pangs of jealousy than when I drive by a guy headed out on a 16 hr flight to Japan in a 777.

Do I want to go back to the corporate world? No... I enjoy the flying, the crews and the passengers and I am lucky to have a variety of flying, decent seniority an opportunity to progress to other positions / air craft if I like however... If the music stops here will I go to the bottom of the list elsewhere, or head overseas? No I'll be here asking about good corporate gigs...

Also if I happen to receive a job offer to fly one of the above mentioned corporate birds for a decent company I'd have some serious thinking to do

If you find a great corporate job but have a desire to fly the big stuff in the end an airplane is an airplane... But everyone is different I've never really been a metal chaser..

Cheers

[nottellin]

Some nice stories here on the ups of corporate aviation,

But from where I am at, corporate is on the decline, management companies are becoming more prolific and their agenda is to reduce costs for owners to pad their margins and we all know where those cuts come from. Starting pay for Captains has been steadily declining for the last few years and guys are usually only getting inflation if that for pay increases.

For new F/O's their starting pay is usually right in line with jazz/ skyregional etc, Sure chances of an upgrade will happen earlier but if your new Capt pay is only 80-85k ish and you are only getting 2% increases a year, your airline colleagues will quickly surpass you and it will be an even tougher move to go back and start at the bottom somewhere, if you get sick of it.

So for this chance a quicker upgrade the job security side of things is a joke compared to the airline world, you better pick your horses wisely and keep your ear to the ground as you dont want to be the last guy notified when your airplane is sold, which is usually how it goes.

Say you were mis fortunate enough to twist some metal in the corporate world, well there is no union like at the airlines to protect your ass and I am assuming you would be one thrown under the bus if there was even a hint of Pilot error, which there usually is.

Get into corporate if you intend on doing something on the side to subsidize your income due to the fact in most case you get more time off, however you will most likely have no control of what days those will be and things can change last minute, so the side job better be flexible.

Also if you get off on telling people you fly a big airliner, dont do corpotate because the first thing people ask when they hear your a pilot is " how big is the plane" and you say, " well its a jet, seats 6 to 10 ppl, in big seat though ...."

I do enjoy the challenge of corporate as I like the interaction, your dealing with big shots and know it alls, so dont try to BS them, and there is no cockpit door to hide behind. So you have to know what you are talking about.

Im still waiting for one of those sweet jobs some of the other guys have been mentioning, in the meantime, things are not that bad, but they need to get a whole lot better or Ill have to face the fact that I made the wrong choice when going corporate years back.

[wallypilot]

There are always those that feel they made the wrong choice, airline or corporate. Chance and opportunity always play a roll in career progression. I have met many airline guys that wish for corporate and vice versa. Grass is always greener and all that.

But the original question was do people aspire to be corporate pilots. To be honest, I don't know if it's possible, since most newbies have no clue about corporate aviation, so how can one aspire to something one knows nothing about? In any case once in aviation, and once you learn a bit about the industry, do pilots aspire to be corporate pilots? Well, I did. I considered the airlines along the way, but the airlines for me was always a settlement, never what I really wanted, so I am very happy that I found the elusive "sweet corporate gig" because otherwise I would been sloggin it out month to month in teal! Man those guys work too hard!

[tons-o-fun]

To the original question do pilots aspire to become corporate pilots? Yes they do. I, from a very young age grew up in a small town with large industry. I cut grass,swept hangar floors, and watched big corporate jets fly in with the big wigs. After the big wigs left to head to their meetings I watched the pilots strip down to their casuals and have a couple cocktails with a sexy stewardess (they're not dragons like the airlines) for the little known APU party. I thought man, these guys have it all figured out.

When I finally got my ducks in a row to start a career path towards becoming a corporate pilot I actually reached out to a very well known member of the Avcanada community (Sulako) for advice on career path. Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot. Or maybe he was too busy making one of those cool, hip job ads. Either way, I ended up doing it by myself and surpassing Sulako in every way (thanks for the indirect motivation ya dink. I'm a cocky big wheel now haha)

Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines.

Corporate is challenging some days. It takes a special kind of person to become a GOOD corporate pilot. You have to be a self starter, think on your feet, Work hard, and avoid being an introvert. You will have to deal with some of the most powerful people in North America and not being able to hold an intelligent conversation will be very detrimental to your progression.

I'm proud of where I'm at. Things are good. I look at airlines as giving up and taking the easy road where you no longer have to think for yourself or worry about being fired, a union will always protect you. Weak. I really wish I had those cool hats, rolley bags, and swagger when walking through the terminal though lol. Do something cool with your life, you will have the opportunity to see and sometimes experience how the 1% live. Screw that, become the 1% lol but if all else fails become a Corp pilot, it's the next best thing!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Lots of good conversation...rare for the "corporate" forum...just what I was looking for when I posted the "insulting" question!
My dream was to fly for Big Red...when the call came for an interview, I promptly turned them down. I was already too far into a corporate career to take such a step backwards in pay and working conditions.
I have been flying corporate jets for fifteen years and absolutely love it. There is no way I could get this lifestyle at the airlines, plus a salary that is greater than the average Canadian airline pilot.
I found corporate aviation "accidentally" early in my career and I am very happy that I did.
It was the best kept secret in the aviation world...when I started flying I had no aviation background and had no clue such a career exsisted.

[DowneastGuy]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

[tons-o-fun]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

[Flybabe]

...
Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines. ...

For some reason, this struck me. It's not companies like Chartright, it's also companies that are promoting themselves as "the best" while they are, behind the scenes, forcing the flight crews to curbs costs because "the owners", that's why.

I guess that's typical in aviation in general, though.

[C208]

I turned down Cathay, AC, Jazz, and Porter to stick it out with Corporate. I just couldn't see myself leaving this company to be at the bottom rung of a long ladder. The interview process were fun and I liked the challenge but in the end I turned them down. I would have to work for 10-15 years at each company to match what my first year pay was at my Company, (And thats for the RIGHT seat) . I work with great people and I am home every night, were encouraged to take courses necessary to further our education in Aviation and outside of it as well, often at their expense.

I do look at the 777s taxi by and wonder if that could be me one day!

I very curious as to what company pays $150,000+ to start in the right seat....

Oil

[V2plus10]

Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines.

ton-o-fun, Can I ask what is your experience level in regards to Chartright? Do you have first hand knowledge in regards to their pay. I know they just revamped their pay scales and starting FO salary on a light jet(C560) is 50k, when Sunwest starts their C680 Sovereign FO's at 40k. Maybe I don't know what you know, but considering that alone I don't get how Chartright is the company dictating wages.

[Flybabe]

Speaking of Chartright ....

If there are any pilots on here that work there, please PM me.

[Jasper]

Chartright, like all management companies are only as good as their current management. Under Rependa, Chartright was born and became a respectable company, under Nigel Argent, it was a disaster, under current management, it is reasonably well run operationally and better run as a business.

Management companies all incur the same operational expenses so the only place to compete for business is in driving salaries down. They get away with it by retaining employees with training bonds. Why you want to hold someone in a job that really doesn't want to be there is beyond me. Why you want to work for a company that practices that is also beyond me. In all fairness, all management companies do the same. Gone are the days of paying to retain the individuals you want.

[West peak]

I spoke to a good buddy of mine about a job posting for Chartright a little while back. He sent me the pay structure below.
Not sure if this new pay scale that was mentioned above is legit but he said the pay hasn't changed for years. Annual pay raises are just CPI.
Company seems just like any other Management Company, looking to cut costs which starts at pilot pay. I'm sure he said they don't get any stat days either, but don't quote me on that.
He seemed happy there though.

[fish4life]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

Ok so to get it straight he did help you then?

[tons-o-fun]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

Ok so to get it straight he did help you then?

No

[x15]

Edited...