Jumping from airline to corporate?

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by goingnowherefast »

wallypilot wrote:
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:A big problem with management companies is the fact that they CHARGE the aircraft owner a great deal more in salaries than they actual pay the pilots. I would be willing to bet that most owners think the pilots are making a good salary, because they are paying a good salary...it just doesn't get passed on.
I know some who work for a large management co where the owner pays the pilots directly...no middleman for the pilots salaries. So not every management situation is the same, even within the same management company.
I worked for a management company for a short period. The other pilot was employed by and paid by the owner directly. I was paid by the management company. I saw the bill one day and my salary was 90% of what was billed to the owner.
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JeppsOnFire
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by JeppsOnFire »

nottellin wrote:The problem with those increase is they can be snatched away at the blink of an eye, A little harder in a unionized airline environment. A great Corporate job can turn into a crappy corporate job pretty quickly. Thats why I bailed. The only thing I miss is the hotels and rental cars.
That is a valid point. However, FWIW I've been in it over 15 years and I have never experienced a paycut. Pay freeze once. Not many jobs offer perfect certainty - just look at the Shell Flight department, Suncor, Canadian Airlines, U.S. Airways etc.
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wallypilot
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by wallypilot »

JeppsOnFire wrote:
nottellin wrote:The problem with those increase is they can be snatched away at the blink of an eye, A little harder in a unionized airline environment. A great Corporate job can turn into a crappy corporate job pretty quickly. Thats why I bailed. The only thing I miss is the hotels and rental cars.
That is a valid point. However, FWIW I've been in it over 15 years and I have never experienced a paycut. Pay freeze once. Not many jobs offer perfect certainty - just look at the Shell Flight department, Suncor, Canadian Airlines, U.S. Airways etc.
Same with me. Definitely a couple stagnant years at the beginning, but after about 3 years into the corporate world, pay raises and working conditions improved steadily and continue to now that I am 11 years in corporate flying.
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mountainking3
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by mountainking3 »

goingnowherefast wrote:
wallypilot wrote:
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:A big problem with management companies is the fact that they CHARGE the aircraft owner a great deal more in salaries than they actual pay the pilots. I would be willing to bet that most owners think the pilots are making a good salary, because they are paying a good salary...it just doesn't get passed on.
I know some who work for a large management co where the owner pays the pilots directly...no middleman for the pilots salaries. So not every management situation is the same, even within the same management company.
I worked for a management company for a short period. The other pilot was employed by and paid by the owner directly. I was paid by the management company. I saw the bill one day and my salary was 90% of what was billed to the owner.

Although I've heard of management companies trying to get away with charging aircraft owners more for crew salaries then what they're paying the pilots - I think it's rare these days.
Keep in mind that there's a payroll burden associated with your employment, which is where the extra 10% getting billed to your owner may be coming from.
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wallypilot
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by wallypilot »

mountainking3 wrote:
Although I've heard of management companies trying to get away with charging aircraft owners more for crew salaries then what they're paying the pilots - I think it's rare these days.
Keep in mind that there's a payroll burden associated with your employment, which is where the extra 10% getting billed to your owner may be coming from.
While a valid point, the actual fiscal payroll burden is nowhere near 10%. Once initial payroll is set up, it is about 1 hr work per pay period for the entire salaried group. So one hour every two weeks for the year for the entire management company is about 24 hours a year to process payroll...add a few hours for new hires and processing ROE’s, plus another couple grand a year for payroll software...you get the point....no way is it worth 10% of one salary....maybe .25% plus some profit makes it .50%.

But yes the management co does incur a bit of cost for payroll. But don’t kid yourself...they milk it big time if they are billing 10%.
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mountainking3
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by mountainking3 »

wallypilot wrote:
mountainking3 wrote:
Although I've heard of management companies trying to get away with charging aircraft owners more for crew salaries then what they're paying the pilots - I think it's rare these days.
Keep in mind that there's a payroll burden associated with your employment, which is where the extra 10% getting billed to your owner may be coming from.
While a valid point, the actual fiscal payroll burden is nowhere near 10%. Once initial payroll is set up, it is about 1 hr work per pay period for the entire salaried group. So one hour every two weeks for the year for the entire management company is about 24 hours a year to process payroll...add a few hours for new hires and processing ROE’s, plus another couple grand a year for payroll software...you get the point....no way is it worth 10% of one salary....maybe .25% plus some profit makes it .50%.

But yes the management co does incur a bit of cost for payroll. But don’t kid yourself...they milk it big time if they are billing 10%.
It's all case-by-case (company) based...
If you're working for any one of the "major" corporate operators in Canada, the payroll burden could easily be higher than 10%. It all depends on what's offered under your employment agreement.
If you company offers benefits like comprehensive health/dental plans, RRSP contribution matching, employee insurance, ect. - these are all factors which affect what the payroll burden rate would be.
There's also other standard factors like federal employer tax, CPP, workers comp, ect., which are factored into the burden rate.
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Canadian Skyhawk
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by Canadian Skyhawk »

In my pre-aviation days at several large multinationals, the rule of thumb for employee cost was salary + 25%. That is what we budgeted when we considered adding one headcount. Of course, that included a slew of non-salary benefits paid by the company, including corporate matching of RRSP contributions, comprehensive dental/optical/medical/family insurance, employer EI contributions....in addition to payroll administration. The list was very long. I'm not saying that some management outfits aren't gouging, but each case is different and depends greatly on what employers give beyond straight salary.
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Re: Jumping from airline to corporate?

Post by confusedalot »

I ended up in a corporate operation 5 years after 9/11. Lost the airline job along with everyone else post 9/11.

Also lost that corporate job after the 2008 financial panic, along with 1500 other ''non flight department'' employees a mere 2 years into the job.

Although it was a great job with a rather large, actually very large corporation, with all of the top level benefits, the moral of the story is that you just cannot escape big time life events......no matter how good the job is, when it comes to accountants, all you are is just another number.

Sad really.
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