Netjets getting even better.

Discussion of topics related to corporate aviation throughout the world.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

FOD_Vacuum
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:54 am

Netjets getting even better.

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... l_cleartim

Why is this not happening in Canada?!? Netjets is already one of the best coorporate departments in the States and to plan for the future, they set themselves apart even more now from their competitors by announcing top industry standard pay and conditions for flight crew. Companies in Canada are having a hard time keeping experienced guys around..why are we still getting nickel and dimed?

Another link from Frontiers pilots-over 50% across-the-board pay raise for pilots:
http://www.pressreleasepoint.com/fronti ... -preserves
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

This will never happen in Canada as long as you can stick a 250hr wonder in the right seat.
It will also never happen as long as AC continues to pay $40,000usd a year for a 777 FO.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

*cracking knuckles*

Time to get started on those FAA conversion exams.

And time to start swiping right on those layovers to find that green card wife.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Highway 401
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:31 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by Highway 401 »

This will never happen in Canada as long as you can stick a 250hr wonder in the right seat.
Bingo
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:12 pm *cracking knuckles*

Time to get started on those FAA conversion exams.

And time to start swiping right on those layovers to find that green card wife.

S.
Lol you can get some sweet mamas in Pontiac!
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by goingnowherefast »

A 250hr FO is typically stuck there. Still need somebody to command that airplane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:48 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:12 pm *cracking knuckles*

Time to get started on those FAA conversion exams.

And time to start swiping right on those layovers to find that green card wife.

S.
Lol you can get some sweet mamas in Pontiac!
Some interesting girls over yonder, not quite Netjets ex-wifey material.

How are those smug Margaritas tastin' in Fort Lauderdale ya bum? Get back to work...

Thread officially derailed.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
hawker driver
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:49 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by hawker driver »

Here are the current NetJets pay scales from their contract.

You can add $25K to $30K to each of those numbers for the soft money added to their pay per year.
Those numbers are for a schedule of 7 ON/ 7 Off with home bases.

Increases in 401(k) match to 63% over the life of the Agreement
-Creates a Non-Discretionary Contribution 401(k) Mechanism which allows additional funds to be added outside of the 2019 $19,000 IRS Limit
-Keeps Company Paid Health Insurance at Current Level
-Base Pay Increases
-New Flight & Duty Pay Program that pays per tour - if a pilot flies over 12.1 hours in a tour any additional hours flown are paid at $118/flight hour
-Night Flight & Duty Pay Override of $50/hour
All current OT provisions still apply and compound
-Signing Bonus of $150 per month/service up to $30,000
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
IMG_3893.jpg
IMG_3893.jpg (37.24 KiB) Viewed 5650 times
IMG_3892.jpg
IMG_3892.jpg (34.22 KiB) Viewed 5650 times
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5931
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by digits_ »

hawker driver wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:04 pm Here are the current NetJets pay scales from their contract.

You can add $25K to $30K to each of those numbers for the soft money added to their pay per year.
Those numbers are for a schedule of 7 ON/ 7 Off with home bases.

Increases in 401(k) match to 63% over the life of the Agreement
-Creates a Non-Discretionary Contribution 401(k) Mechanism which allows additional funds to be added outside of the 2019 $19,000 IRS Limit
-Keeps Company Paid Health Insurance at Current Level
-Base Pay Increases
-New Flight & Duty Pay Program that pays per tour - if a pilot flies over 12.1 hours in a tour any additional hours flown are paid at $118/flight hour
-Night Flight & Duty Pay Override of $50/hour
All current OT provisions still apply and compound
-Signing Bonus of $150 per month/service up to $30,000
Wow. That is pretty sweet... Starting to see the appeal for US flying...
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
ant_321
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 849
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by ant_321 »

Just out of pure curiosity, what would someone working at a comparable Canadian company expect to make. I have no idea what you guys in the corporate world get paid.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

To put that in perspective, that there is listed as a small cabin payscale. Don't know exactly how they qualify cabins (we generally talk weight and class). We usually classify everything as light jet (Citation), medium (G150), supermid (Challenger 300), heavy (Falcon 900), long range (Global). Those are the divisions in Canada that you see big splits in pay and they are listed in CBAA tables defining salaries based on more or less those sizes (typically by GTOW). I think they clump supermids and heavies together - but you'd have a hard time negotiating a Falcon 900 salary on a G200.

Anyways, I will make a huge assumption here, and assume a small cabin is something like a Phenom 300, Learjet 75 or Hawker 900XP. Something you'd qualify as a light-medium sized jet.

Those numbers in Canada range on the very top end as reported by the CBAA to be 100k-140k (ish) - I am interpolating . Flying a Phenom in Canada you would likely not see much higher than 90k, same with little Citations. Hawker you'd be lucky to break 140k. Trying to think of anything in that category under 30k lbs that would net higher and I am scratching that bald spot on the back of my head.

That's just salary -if you look at schedule, there really are no common 7on/7off schedules to be had at THOSE salary levels. So all in all the Netjets package is pretty phenomenal, and I would say rivals most airlines up here, let alone the only fractional ownership company, Air Sprint (sorry guys). The only thing that's missing that guys like to crow about are flight benefits.

The one big caveat to working in the U.S though is health insurance - and while the net take home is significantly higher, you have a sizeable portion removed for your insurance. That still leaves you with more than enough to buy a house that would make Woodbridger's mansion owners blush on some beautiful property in Colorado as you polish your Tesla Model S P100D.

Remember that payscale is SMALL cabin, I would really really like to see the midsize or large cabin payscale to really be put in my place.

*swiping right, swiping right, swiping right, hesitates, grimaces, continues swiping right*

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
sicamore
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by sicamore »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:11 am The one big caveat to working in the U.S though is health insurance - and while the net take home is significantly higher, you have a sizeable portion removed for your insurance.
I lived in the states for quite a few years and had PPO insurance. It was about $60 per month. Hardly a drop compared to everything that is withdrawn from my paycheck here before I see a dime.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:21 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:11 am The one big caveat to working in the U.S though is health insurance - and while the net take home is significantly higher, you have a sizeable portion removed for your insurance.
I lived in the states for quite a few years and had PPO insurance. It was about $60 per month. Hardly a drop compared to everything that is withdrawn from my paycheck here before I see a dime.
Damn, I was misled. A couple guys I spoke with said their insurance was significantly higher than 60/month.

The PPO for a family of four, how mucj would that cost and how far would that get you if a family member has some sort of cancer or serious ailment?

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
sicamore
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by sicamore »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:21 am
sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:21 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:11 am The one big caveat to working in the U.S though is health insurance - and while the net take home is significantly higher, you have a sizeable portion removed for your insurance.
I lived in the states for quite a few years and had PPO insurance. It was about $60 per month. Hardly a drop compared to everything that is withdrawn from my paycheck here before I see a dime.
Damn, I was misled. A couple guys I spoke with said their insurance was significantly higher than 60/month.

The PPO for a family of four, how mucj would that cost and how far would that get you if a family member has some sort of cancer or serious ailment?

S.
Granted that cost was just for me, and I was younger so never used it apart from the occasional doctor and dentist visit. And it was 15 years ago.

https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employe ... e-premiums

According to the above a family is about $475 a month depending on your employer. Some employers will cover most of the cost. For individual now looks about $100 a month.

Bear in mind for that cost you get excellent service. Want an MRI? You could have an appointment tomorrow.

Having lived in a few countries, I prefer the socialized medicine with the option for private insurance. Best of both worlds.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:37 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:21 am
sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:21 am

I lived in the states for quite a few years and had PPO insurance. It was about $60 per month. Hardly a drop compared to everything that is withdrawn from my paycheck here before I see a dime.
Damn, I was misled. A couple guys I spoke with said their insurance was significantly higher than 60/month.

The PPO for a family of four, how mucj would that cost and how far would that get you if a family member has some sort of cancer or serious ailment?

S.
Granted that cost was just for me, and I was younger so never used it apart from the occasional doctor and dentist visit. And it was 15 years ago.

https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employe ... e-premiums

According to the above a family is about $475 a month depending on your employer. Some employers will cover most of the cost. For individual now looks about $100 a month.

Bear in mind for that cost you get excellent service. Want an MRI? You could have an appointment tomorrow.

Having lived in a few countries, I prefer the socialized medicine with the option for private insurance. Best of both worlds.
Thank you for clarifying, that sounds closer to what I've been hearing. Still not a bad deal anyway you slice it.

Having gone through a period of poor health myself, I was impressed with how quickly I was taken care of here in Canada, multiple times.

Not saying its the rule, but we work pretty good up here. Not sure which is the better deal when you break down numbers (taxes vs flat out off pay), but I feel for those people less fortunate, who fail to get coverage through work, its a scary world and the U.S will happily eat its young.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Jet Jockey
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 368
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by Jet Jockey »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 am
sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:37 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:21 am

Damn, I was misled. A couple guys I spoke with said their insurance was significantly higher than 60/month.

The PPO for a family of four, how mucj would that cost and how far would that get you if a family member has some sort of cancer or serious ailment?

S.
Granted that cost was just for me, and I was younger so never used it apart from the occasional doctor and dentist visit. And it was 15 years ago.

https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employe ... e-premiums

According to the above a family is about $475 a month depending on your employer. Some employers will cover most of the cost. For individual now looks about $100 a month.

Bear in mind for that cost you get excellent service. Want an MRI? You could have an appointment tomorrow.

Having lived in a few countries, I prefer the socialized medicine with the option for private insurance. Best of both worlds.
Thank you for clarifying, that sounds closer to what I've been hearing. Still not a bad deal anyway you slice it.

Having gone through a period of poor health myself, I was impressed with how quickly I was taken care of here in Canada, multiple times.

Not saying its the rule, but we work pretty good up here. Not sure which is the better deal when you break down numbers (taxes vs flat out off pay), but I feel for those people less fortunate, who fail to get coverage through work, its a scary world and the U.S will happily eat its young.

S.
Couldn't agree more... Never had issues with our system here in Canada. I have had 3 operations, one for my right knee meniscus, one for cancer (prostate) and finally one for a hernia... All were dealt with swiftly with no issues... I have friends (Americans) in the Boston area and they told me their health insurance was way more than $500/month for a "pretty" good coverage... Everybody talks about the "cost of living" being cheaper in the USA... I call BS on that. Depending on where you live the cost of housing, insurance (cars, houses, etc.) can easily be triple or even quadruple what I pay here in Montreal. A friend of mine bought a house in the White Plains (NY) area evaluated at $1.5M... his annual municipal taxes are a whopping $32K. If you think that's expensive try living near a big city in California or Texas.. Then there is the income tax issue. Most claim that we get the shaft in Canada... Well since I live in Quebec where we are supposedly the highest taxed people in North America, I can tell you that on my salary between the federal and Quebec income taxes plus Quebec's additional social contributions I paid about 38% to both levels of government. Well that same friend that lives in the state of New York paid 42% although I'm sure he make a lot more money than I (he's not a pilot). Then there is the schooling. Try going to some of their better universities without a scholarship and let me know how much that sets you back.

In the end it all depends where you live... It is very hard to compare apples and oranges when discussing Canada and the USA and it is of my opinion that the quality of life in Canada for may reasons is way better.

Finally, there are some good quality corporate jobs in Canada. Let us not forget we are about 10 times smaller in population than the USA with I'm sure the same amount proportionally of good corporate aviation jobs available.

My working conditions are very good thanks to the corporation that owns the aircrafts I fly.

- I have 10 days OFF a month.
- The other 20 days I do cover the aircrafts but it is extremely rare that we fly more than 10 days in a month unless we leave for an extended trip.
- In those 20 days I cover our aircrafts, we usually know in advance when we are going to fly. Last minute trips are very rare.
- If they call me on my days OFF, I get paid an additional $1350/day.
- In a year I might fly between 225 and 300 hours (cant remember the last time I flew 300 hours).
- When we deadhead for crew changes on the longer trips, we fly business class.
- I have 5 weeks paid vacation.
- They contribute to my retirement plan.
- I get an annual bonus.
- I get on average a 3% annual increase in salary because I'm at the top of the scale. Basically cost of living plus 1%.
- My regular annual salary (not including the above), is over $200K.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Jet Jockey on Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Jet Jockey wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:44 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 am
sicamore wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:37 am

Granted that cost was just for me, and I was younger so never used it apart from the occasional doctor and dentist visit. And it was 15 years ago.

https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employe ... e-premiums

According to the above a family is about $475 a month depending on your employer. Some employers will cover most of the cost. For individual now looks about $100 a month.

Bear in mind for that cost you get excellent service. Want an MRI? You could have an appointment tomorrow.

Having lived in a few countries, I prefer the socialized medicine with the option for private insurance. Best of both worlds.
Thank you for clarifying, that sounds closer to what I've been hearing. Still not a bad deal anyway you slice it.

Having gone through a period of poor health myself, I was impressed with how quickly I was taken care of here in Canada, multiple times.

Not saying its the rule, but we work pretty good up here. Not sure which is the better deal when you break down numbers (taxes vs flat out off pay), but I feel for those people less fortunate, who fail to get coverage through work, its a scary world and the U.S will happily eat its young.

S.
Couldn't agree more... Never had issues with our system here in Canada. I have had 3 operations, one for my right knee meniscus, one for cancer (prostate) and finally one for a hernia... All were dealt with swiftly with no issues... I have friends (Americans) in the Boston area and they told me their health insurance was way more than $500/month for a "pretty" good coverage... Everybody talks about the "cost of living" being cheaper in the USA... I call BS on that. Depending on where you live the cost of housing, insurance (cars, houses, etc.) can easily be triple or even quadruple what I pay here in Montreal. A friend of mine bought a house in the White Plains (NY) area evaluated at $1.5M... his annual municipal taxes are a whopping $32K. If you think that's expensive try living near a big city in California or Texas.. Then there is the income tax issue. Most claim that we get the shaft in Canada... Well since I live in Quebec where we are supposedly the highest taxed people in North America, I can tell you that on my salary between the federal and Quebec income taxes plus Quebec's additional social contributions I paid about 38% to both levels of government. Well that same friend that lives in the state of New York paid 42% although I'm sure he make a lot more money than I (he's not a pilot). Then there is the schooling. Try going to some of their better universities without a scholarship and let me know how much that sets you back.

In the end it all depends where you live... It is very hard to compare apples and oranges when discussing Canada and the USA and it is of my opinion that the quality of life in Canada for may reasons is way better.

Finally, there are some good quality corporate jobs in Canada. Let us not forget we are about 10 times smaller in population than the USA with I'm the same amount proportionally of good corporate aviation jobs available.

My working conditions are very good (no thanks to the management company), but rather the corporation that owns the aircrafts I fly.

- I have 10 days OFF a month.
- The other 20 days I do cover the aircrafts but it is extremely rare that we fly more than 10 days in a month unless we leave for an extended trip.
- In those 20 days I cover our aircrafts, we usually know in advance when we are going to fly. Last minute trips are very rare.
- If they call me on my days OFF, I get paid an additional $1350/day.
- In a year I might fly between 225 and 300 hours (cant remember the last time I flew 300 hours).
- When we deadhead for crew changes on the longer trips, we fly business class.
- I have 5 weeks paid vacation.
- They contribute to my retirement plan.
- I get an annual bonus.
- I get on average a 3% annual increase in salary because I'm at the top of the scale. Basically cost of living plus 1%.
- My regular annual salary (not including the above), is over $200K.
That is a pretty phenomenal sounding job, particularly since it's run under a management company's OC. Hopefully they remain profitable in the long run and can always support those types of benefits.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Jet Jockey
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 368
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by Jet Jockey »

schnitzel2k3 wrote:

That is a pretty phenomenal sounding job, particularly since it's run under a management company's OC. Hopefully they remain profitable in the long run and can always support those types of benefits.

S.


Many years back we "arranged some of our conditions" by having talks directly with the corporation that own the aircrafts.
---------- ADS -----------
 
AirSprint HR
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:15 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by AirSprint HR »

The below page is usually updated in a timely manner for those asking about larger aircraft salaries at NJ.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... al/netjets

The one thing to note with NJ is that it usually takes a very long time to make Captain. If the website is correct, the current wait to make Captain on a small aircraft is 13.5 years. From the above website: Most Junior Captain Hired: July 2005 (Phenom 300)

Regards,

James
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Netjets getting even better.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

AirSprint HR wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:44 am The below page is usually updated in a timely manner for those asking about larger aircraft salaries at NJ.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... al/netjets

The one thing to note with NJ is that it usually takes a very long time to make Captain. If the website is correct, the current wait to make Captain on a small aircraft is 13.5 years. From the above website: Most Junior Captain Hired: July 2005 (Phenom 300)

Regards,

James
What's the current average time to Captain at Air Sprint? (actually curious).

I know AC had a 10+ year wait to NB captain, now it's come down to 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised if that time for both small and large cabin jets starts to come down quickly. Looking at that package plus the 20% increases and bonus, far and above exceeds every Canadian gig, especially when you consider a 7/7 sched, even if you had to do more than 5+ years in the right seat.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Corporate”