Corporate Department Longevity

Discussion of topics related to corporate aviation throughout the world.

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CL-Skadoo!
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Corporate Department Longevity

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

Had the discussion recently with a co-captain regarding long-lived corporate flight departments (25+ years) and how they are becoming increasingly rare. We could come up with some big players in the US, Kimberly Clark, Ford, Disney and the list goes on forever, simply because the US is what it is.

However, we had difficulty coming up with the Canadian companies that have had corporate flight departments that have endured. Barrick, some of the banks that haven't shifted over to managed birds, telecommunications like Bell perhaps. Anyway, wondering who the flight departments are in Canada playing the long game?
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YC87DRVR
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by YC87DRVR »

Good luck getting first hand info out of those boys/girls, rule #1.
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PitchLink
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by PitchLink »

YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:48 pm Good luck getting first hand info out of those boys/girls, rule #1.
whats rule #1?
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PitchLink
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by PitchLink »

CL-Skadoo! wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:00 pm Had the discussion recently with a co-captain regarding long-lived corporate flight departments (25+ years) and how they are becoming increasingly rare. We could come up with some big players in the US, Kimberly Clark, Ford, Disney and the list goes on forever, simply because the US is what it is.

However, we had difficulty coming up with the Canadian companies that have had corporate flight departments that have endured. Barrick, some of the banks that haven't shifted over to managed birds, telecommunications like Bell perhaps. Anyway, wondering who the flight departments are in Canada playing the long game?
Why would they go to managed aircraft?
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CL-Skadoo!
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

PitchLink wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:58 am
YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:48 pm Good luck getting first hand info out of those boys/girls, rule #1.
whats rule #1?
Canadian Private flight department folks never speak about their flight departments. I don't mean non-disclosure, sensitive type things, either.

Go to any FBO in the states though, and that's a different story.
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PitchLink
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by PitchLink »

CL-Skadoo! wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:36 am
PitchLink wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:58 am
YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:48 pm Good luck getting first hand info out of those boys/girls, rule #1.
whats rule #1?
Canadian Private flight department folks never speak about their flight departments. I don't mean non-disclosure, sensitive type things, either.

Go to any FBO in the states though, and that's a different story.
I’m aware, I deal with flight departments in the USA lots and it’s very casual, here it’s like some mafia stuff lol
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flaps78
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by flaps78 »

The history of corporate flight departments is not very well documented. Similarly it is difficult to find any information about company owned aircraft in the annual company report.

My definition of a Corporate Aviation Department is when the aircraft is owned or leased by the corporation and the staff ( pilots, maintenance etc) are employees of the corporation. Managed aircraft are owned by the corporation while the pilots, AME's etc are employed by the managment company.
Corporate Aviation Department staff generally receive better salaries, benefits and a pension compared to managed aircraft staff. Yes, I have worked for both

While I do not know who the older Corporate Aviation Flight Department presently are I would look at the 5 big banks in Canada, utility companies and pipeline companies. In the past oill companies and service companies frequently operated company aircraft.

To my knowledge the company that had the longest running Corporate Aviation Flight Department in Canada was Imperial Oil Ltd / ESSO Resources Canada Ltd. IOL's first involvement with aircraft was with the "Renee and Vic" between 1920 to 1922. This history is well documented in Frank Ellis's book "Canada's Flying Heritage". However, this does not meet my own definition of corporate as the pilots were contract.

In 1931 IOL purchased a De Havilland DH-80A Puss Moth ( s/n DNC 219, registration CF-IOL) to be operated by Aviation Sales and to be flown by employee Pat Reid( later to be inducted into Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame)) In 1945 IOL officially started the Imperial Oil Ltd Aviation Dept in Toronto and took over Aviation Sales aircraft. The new manager was Bruce Middleton (later to be inducted into Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame).

IOL ceased operations in December 2010. During 79 years of continuous corporate operation they operated 43 different aircraft ( floats, wheels, skiis and high flotation) bush aircraft to airliner's and corporate jets.

For other flight departments I would suggest looking into Shell Oil, Hudson Bay and Goodyear Tire.

Flaps 78
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NovaBoy
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by NovaBoy »

The Irving’s have had a flight department since 1937.
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CJ3PILOT
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by CJ3PILOT »

Well with the new Luxury tax coming in January more will be shutting down or moving the aircraft to the U.S. Its going to be costly for them and a lot of people will be out of a job.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

CJ3PILOT wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 am Well with the new Luxury tax coming in January more will be shutting down or moving the aircraft to the U.S. Its going to be costly for them and a lot of people will be out of a job.
Respectfully disagree, there's always loopholes built in, and these guys have ridiculous lawyers who will find them. a few may opt for U.S registrstion - most will keep their C birds in Canada.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

CJ3PILOT wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 am Well with the new Luxury tax coming in January more will be shutting down or moving the aircraft to the U.S. Its going to be costly for them and a lot of people will be out of a job.
These guys have some pretty good accountants…. Guess we will see
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PitchLink
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Re: Corporate Department Longevity

Post by PitchLink »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:45 am
CJ3PILOT wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 am Well with the new Luxury tax coming in January more will be shutting down or moving the aircraft to the U.S. Its going to be costly for them and a lot of people will be out of a job.
Respectfully disagree, there's always loopholes built in, and these guys have ridiculous lawyers who will find them. a few may opt for U.S registrstion - most will keep their C birds in Canada.
It sure seems they aren’t going anywhere
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