Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

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SheriffPatGarrett
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by SheriffPatGarrett » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:41 pm

Basler? When I flew in South France, taxiing by some French Navy base(I forgot which)hear was 50 DC-3 parked there...so I stopped the plane by and went to look...(that was 1980 or so)They told me those have been drove from the Douglas factory in the US in 1945 ..ALL BEAUTIFUL BRAND NEW!the whole lot never moved. Soon later, Basler bought the lot for peanuts...Where Basler sold them, I have no idea but 10 years ago, I quit flying mosquito spraying a DC-3 in Panama, Fla, about 2008...And Basler bought it and fitted two PT-6 on it...
It was a pretty old and ugly one with a tank of poison 2 feet wide and twenty feet long shooting two sprayers under the tail about on ounce a yard of nerve agent and smelly and toxic you can hate the most! Nalon, sarin, malathion, I forgot... our mechanic had to get pressurized and dress like a moon walker to work on that shit...(one drop on your wrist will give you cancer, they said)The Airplane smell like a dead horse...I just cant figure why Basler buy this garbage poison aircraft!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:16 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:58 am
Still 1930s design. You can take an old Dodge coupe and stick a fuel injected engine in it and you're still driving an unaerodynamic box with leaf springs, crap manual steering, no power brakes.
Wow, we sure have different opinions about how a DC3 fly's.

I have over five thousand hours on DC3's and in my opinion it was the nicest flying airplane I ever flew.

Of course our opinions can be quite different based on our experience flying them.

How many hours do you have on the DC3 goingnowherefast to have formed that opinion?
I'm sure the plane flies really nice, but that doesn't make it economically viable. Can't reduce the fuel burn with "nice to fly". Won't generate any extra revenue with "nicest plane I ever flew".

The modern aircraft are much more efficient, cheaper to run, carry more stuff, have more safety features, generally better weather capabilities, etc. That's why they're so rare in modern commercial operations. They're still a fantastic airplane, I'm not bashing it, just that it has very limited commercial potential anymore.

Can't put an ATR, Buffalo or Dash 8 on skiis, that's why Borek still flies them in Antarctica.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:21 pm

Yes in today's world of flying modern technology is making airplanes safer and safer.

One of the best examples I can think of is Airbus Industries including alfa floor protect in their airplanes, it was fun deliberately holding the sidestick full aft and watching the computers prevent me from stalling the thing in their sim at the factory.

They understood the pilot / safety issue quite well.

Here is a good explanation of modern safety factors built into their airplanes.

.
Even if a pilot pulls all he has on the sidestick, the flight computers will know he’s an idiot and refuse to fly an angle of attack higher than that alpha max. The airplane will safely stay within the flight envelope.)
We used to joke about the truth in that statement. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by confusedalot » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:55 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:21 pm
Yes in today's world of flying modern technology is making airplanes safer and safer.

One of the best examples I can think of is Airbus Industries including alfa floor protect in their airplanes, it was fun deliberately holding the sidestick full aft and watching the computers prevent me from stalling the thing in their sim at the factory.

They understood the pilot / safety issue quite well.

Here is a good explanation of modern safety factors built into their airplanes.

.
Even if a pilot pulls all he has on the sidestick, the flight computers will know he’s an idiot and refuse to fly an angle of attack higher than that alpha max. The airplane will safely stay within the flight envelope.)
We used to joke about the truth in that statement. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Hummm......not debating the airbus technology, but can someone explain to me, who never flew an airbus, how these air france guys ended up in a flat high speed (as in vertical) descent into the south atlantic?

Closest thing I came to that sort of gizmo was in the humble embraer 175. Same deal, can't stall the thing. But you will go down fast if you did nothing about it.

You could stall a boeing if you really tried hard and overroad every safety gadget, including alpha floor, but that would only happen if you were purely hand flying. From memory anyways.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:17 pm

Malfunctioning sensors, pilot tube(s) if I remember correctly. Safety features are great, but should never intentionally depend on them. Murphy's law says it will fail when you need it most.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by SheriffPatGarrett » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:53 am

Image

I'm sure the plane flies really nice, but that doesn't make it economically viable.

Well, any piston 3 or 46 would carry 6,000 or 12,000 pounds easy...your dear twotter, barely above a ton
but cost double to operate.
As for ice...ANY ICE! a twotter go down like a rock while the DC-3, the Beech-18 or the C-46
will carry heavy ice and still fly pretty well! I remember flying a DC-3 with an inch(or two or three) of ice all over
and land no problem(with the window open to see outside)
Image
Beside, remember operating a twotter, parked by the dock, leaving one engine running,
you are TOASTING IT, and to been tossed away after 500 hours...remember, the JT3D on a 707 or DC-8 have the engines bleeds blowing out cooled inside while the PT6 IT IS NOT COOLER(no bleed in the engine) and is fast burned out!
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Last edited by SheriffPatGarrett on Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

C.W.E.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by C.W.E. » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm

SheriffPat it is a waste of time trying to explain this to people who are completely ignorant of the subject and are unable to grasp the fact that the DC3 is one of aviation's best designs.

For sure the thing will carry an amazing amount of ice as we both have experienced.

And lack of experience is why they don't understand.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by Dry Guy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:12 pm

When I was a lot younger and beginning my learning curve flying for a living I had one of the scariest experiences of my life. I remember the year clearly, it was 1968.

We had overnighted at Great Whale River and in the morning we did the usual walk around of the DC3 and had noted a very slight film of frost on the top of the wings and tail plane.

The film of frost was so thin we both decided it was not going to be a problem especially as we were departing empty re positioning to Timmins.

It was my turn to fly and everything was normal until just after liftoff as we left ground effect the thing strarted to stall and drop a wing, I shoved the control forward and got it in ground effect again and it was controllable...just controllable... but still rolling from side to side.

Anyhow I stayed in ground effect down the runway and finally got enough airspeed to very, very slowly climb and thankfully we had Hudson Bay under us so we could stay low and finally burn off the frost coating.

Both of us had our eyes sticking out like a bull dogs nuts from fear as we struggled to keep it flying and never, ever, even thought about taking off with any contamination on the wings again, period.

It was one of Austin Airways DC3's and we flew them about 100 hours a month in those days and had become complacent.

Complacency can result in some bad outcomes and in our case it was only the fact the airplane was empty that saved us.

And that of course made all the nurses and teachers in that part of the north happy. :D
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by shimmydampner » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:17 pm

Oh come on now guys, don't get your diapers in a knot. The -3 is a fine ship to be sure, and it has outlasted many newer designs, but the landscape of aviation in Canada has changed since the 50s and with it so has the aircraft that are best suited to it. Don't let your egos make you think it's personal. It's just economics.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by trey kule » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:24 pm

CWE wrote

“What I was pointing out was properly flown the DC3 was a very safe airplane, of course as time passes technology improves and turbines replaced piston engines”

Where, exactly, did you point that out? All I saw was you questioning the aircraft being safe.

Economics plays a big part in the choice of machinery to do a job.

Itis quite amazing that an airplane that started flying almost 90 years ago, is still in commercial use today. The golden age of aviation has passed and the old generations of pilots has also passed, though some old geezers are reluctant to accept it.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by C.W.E. » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:39 pm

Modern aircraft even with today's technology can be terribly flawed as we are seeing with Boeing's latest venture.
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Re: Colombian authorities have disclosed that none of the 14 occupants of a Douglas DC-3 have survived

Post by SheriffPatGarrett » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:52 pm

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today's technology can be terribly flawed

Well, you can get flaws everywhere...

Even on DC-3...look at the meat grinder door...

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Image

Actually, as the caption indicates, it allowed access to the flight deck when the cabin was packed with cargo.
To get out, you use that rope with big knots for you to get down...I remember the co-pilot going down had his finger stuck
under the rope...screamed as his skin got peeled and he went down but stopped by his foot tied in his rope loop.
I then had to push him up as he got his foot off as he was bleeding all over me...

Speaking of flaws...Think of Tante Ju, Auntie the Juliet Junker Ju 52 in Spain's war.
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Imagine while getting shot up by the Polikarpov I-16 Rata(the rat) Mosca(fly) having to ride
the machine gun of Tante JU from dangling from a garbage can held by two strings...

Polikarpov's had a worse fate, he had to build those I-16 from Stalin's Gulags!

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