Buffalo C-46 at Deline.

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:26 pm

Buffalo C-46 has landed gear-up in Deline

ansonchappell · Post by **ansonchappell** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:19 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/buf ... -1.3244335

"The cargo flight was on its way from Yellowknife to Norman Wells, said Chris Krepski with the Transportation Safety Board, when it experienced engine failure and diverted to Deline.
"

And the weather from NAV CANADA's AWWS site shows that it would have been a challenge to make an emergency diversion there this afternoon. Tough situation all the way round.

METAR CYWJ 252000Z 03010KT 1/2SM -RASN OVC005 00/M00 A2946 RMK ST8
WND ESTD SLP988=
METAR CYWJ 251900Z 03010KT 1/2SM -RASN OVC005 00/M01 A2946 RMK ST8
WND ESTD SLP991=
METAR CYWJ 251800Z 03005KT 1/2SM -RASN OVC005 00/M00 A2947 RMK ST8
WND ESTD SLP995=

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:55 pm

The weather has been bad all day.

GyvAir · Post by **GyvAir** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:14 pm

Is that on the airport?

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:41 pm

I believe it's not actually on the runway, but I don't know exactly where it is. There's no NOTAM closing the airport.

bizjets101 · Post by **bizjets101** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:48 pm

photo 100.1 Moose FM

GyvAir · Post by **GyvAir** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:54 pm

Yeah.. the photos online don't give the impression that it's very close to a runway.

DanWEC · Post by **DanWEC** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:22 pm

Crappy! Can't be a good feeling going through that in those conditions. Glad they walked away. So it was an engine failure, not a gear up? If that's not the field they picked a pretty good spot!

From the picture on the CBC site it appears that prop isn't feathered, but also appears it wasn't making much power.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Shouldn't a C-46 be able to maintain altitude on one engine?

gianthammer · Post by **gianthammer** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:04 pm

fish4life wrote:Shouldn't a C-46 be able to maintain altitude on one engine?

This Post is speculation taking into consideration one persons knowledge and experience with this aircraft Type;

At or close to Max Gross Wt (Considering the Routing YZF-YVQ), Unfeathered Prop not producing full Power, possibility of being in icing conditions.

I would say no, you would be in a constant 100-300'/min decent

The crew did a great job salvaging this situation

ansonchappell · Post by **ansonchappell** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:53 pm

The TSB investigator was interviewed by CBC North this afternoon. He said that the number 2 engine was shut down, and they diverted to Deline. The crew elected to land without gear extended and overran the end of the runway. Not enough time to extend, or too worried about airspeed to add all that drag?

Bringing GTXW home will likely have to wait until the Sahtu winter road system is in place, usually by Christmas.

Sean Parr, via Facebook

magic wand · Post by **magic wand** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:24 pm

ansonchappell wrote: Bringing GTXW home will likely have to wait until the Sahtu winter road system is in place, usually by Christmas.

Looking at your picture, left wing - in the area between engine and the fuselage-looks rather wrinkled..she might never come home..

crazyaviator · Post by **crazyaviator** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:13 pm

I was once told by an owner of a plane i was delivering for a sale to "make sure its a write-off if you have an incident" Maybe this is what Buffalo Joe tells his pilots ?

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:57 pm

Looks like they landed on that road? Nice job! That could've been much worse

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:18 pm

gianthammer wrote:
fish4life wrote:Shouldn't a C-46 be able to maintain altitude on one engine?
This Post is speculation taking into consideration one persons knowledge and experience with this aircraft Type;

At or close to Max Gross Wt (Considering the Routing YZF-YVQ), Unfeathered Prop not producing full Power, possibility of being in icing conditions.

I would say no, you would be in a constant 100-300'/min decent

The crew did a great job salvaging this situation

Explain to me why these are still legal then? Is it not time to retire the old girls, when everything else this size has to make accelerate stop distances and have guaranteed engine out climbs how are these allowed to operate?

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:14 pm

Explain to me why these are still legal then? Is it not time to retire the old girls, when everything else this size has to make accelerate stop distances and have guaranteed engine out climbs how are these allowed to operate?

Name me an airplane that will climb out on one engine with the inop engine not feathered? Not many if any.
Add to that possible icing, and.....say.....3/4 of gross weight....

Thats not a standard that is required to be met at all.

DanWEC · Post by **DanWEC** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:33 pm

crazyaviator wrote:I was once told by an owner of a plane i was delivering for a sale to "make sure its a write-off if you have an incident" Maybe this is what Buffalo Joe tells his pilots ?

Thought actually crossed my mind too... But then again, seriously, there is no way I'm landing gear up instead of down, risking my life, and relinquishing all control on landing just because my boss said so, unless said boss is Kate Upton and my bonus is coming that night, with an oral agreement in the morning.

It must be something else. Would be a weird decision based on our armchair info. If your gonna overrun a 4k ft runway I'd rather steer while doing it. Regardless, can't criticize since they walked away. Not a great situation, everyone was safe, and I'm sure there will be more info. This isn't a low time doctor at the controls of Baron.

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm

https://www.facebook.com/deluney44/post ... nref=story

Pictures from a guy who witnessed it, if the link to facebook will work. In the comments section he says they bounced four times before going off the end. Also says they lost both engines, but I doubt that.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:58 pm

boeingboy wrote:
Explain to me why these are still legal then? Is it not time to retire the old girls, when everything else this size has to make accelerate stop distances and have guaranteed engine out climbs how are these allowed to operate?
Name me an airplane that will climb out on one engine with the inop engine not feathered? Not many if any.
Add to that possible icing, and.....say.....3/4 of gross weight....

Thats not a standard that is required to be met at all.

If this was a turbo prop it would have had a much greater chance of not having a windmilling propeller due to power plants that have more fail safes with multiple ways to fx the engine. Also the other engine on most turbo props can handle well over 100% of the rated power rating in a situation like this so I would be willing to bet all ATR / Dash 8 types can handle this situation. These old warbirds have had their day and it has passed.

MAP · Post by **MAP** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:31 am

Buffalo C-46 at Deline.

OWIE at Deline

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