Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

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NickyNick
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Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by NickyNick » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:46 pm

Aren't we flight crews suppose to be professional on the job? A quick final walk-around before door closed with a flashlight is to much for a professional pilot to do if there are no ramp personel? Public hearing about things like this must make them wonder how some ever got a pilots license.


Occurrence Summary
Date Entered:

2016-03-07


Narrative:


A Voyageur Airways Beech B200 (C-GYSC / VAL791) from Moncton, NB (CYQM) to Bathurst, NB (CZBF) conducted a missed approach and declared an emergency with CL controller. Aircraft indicated he had a rudder problem and requested a clearance back to Moncton with emergency response services (ERS) to be ready. Aircraft landed without further incident at 0448z. Joint rescue coordination centre (JRCC) Halifax advised.


O.P.I.:



Further Action Required:

No



Occurrence Summary
Date Entered:

2016-03-07


Narrative:


Update 198192-V2 - Aircraft landed without further incident at 0448Z. After exiting runway aircraft stopped due to tow bar still attached to nose gear.


O.P.I.:



Further Action Required:

No



Occurrence Summary
Date Entered:

2016-03-08


Narrative:


UPDATE: TSB#A16A0022: C-GYSC, a Voyageur Airways Beech B200 aircraft, was operating as flight VAL791 from Moncton/Greater Moncton Intl, NB (CYQM) to Bathurst, NB (CZBF). On approach to Bathurst, the crew noted stiffness in the right rudder pedal. The crew decided to conduct a missed approach, declared an emergency and returned to Moncton. The aircraft landed safely in Moncton with ARFF on standby. During the landing, the crew noted a slight noise from the nose-wheel area. The aircraft was shut down after taxiing off the active runway and upon exiting the aircraft, the crew noted that the tow bar had been left attached to the nose landing gear and that there was damage to the landing gear doors. The nose gear doors and nose gear assembly will be replaced.


O.P.I.:



Further Action Required:

No
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JasonE
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by JasonE » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:27 pm

At least on a single engine, the prop will let you know before you take off :)
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GyvAir
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by GyvAir » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:49 pm

Hard to believe they didn't have a red handle for that trip!
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mmm..bacon
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by mmm..bacon » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:33 pm

Maybe they dont have 4000+hrs of mostly PIC, and they were fatigued, and one thought the other checked, and so on....
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Jean-Pierre » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:15 am

I always would put my map over the attitude indicator to remind to take off the tow bar.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:21 am

I always do a quick walk in front of the plane before I hop in. Look at fuel caps, pitot covers, engine plugs, tow bars, etc.

However only NickyNick is perfect, everybody else makes mistakes. This one just happens to cost a bit of money, and be rather embarrassing.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Sulako » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:16 pm

I attempted a takeoff with the pitot tube covers covered, back in the day. Actually my first flight after September 11th, and I felt distracted by those events because it was like 2 or 3 days after and I was kinda 50/50 that the world was ending. Anyway. The pax weren't pleased when I rejected at 70 knots. I told them it was a nose baggage indication and I got out and stuffed the covers in my pocket and said "I reset the circuit breaker" and we went on our way. I swear I thought I removed them during my walkaround but clearly I didn't, so I get it - It can happen if you aren't vigilant enough.

I'm sorry that this crew will likely wear the embarrassment of this for a while, but there's nothing like aviation to humble a person...
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Chris M
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Chris M » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:49 pm

JasonE wrote:At least on a single engine, the prop will let you know before you take off :)
Not always!

Image
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Meddler » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:31 am

"Make sure that suckers on good, we have 700 miles to go."

This gives me more faith in the integrity of be20 landing gear systems at least..
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by beaverpuq » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:47 pm

I might be more concerned over the look of the belly of this 172? That's a lot of oil and other black stuff.
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toelessjoe
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by toelessjoe » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:46 am

"Aren't we flight crews suppose to be professional on the job? A quick final walk-around before door closed with a flashlight is to much for a professional pilot to do if there are no ramp personel? Public hearing about things like this must make them wonder how some ever got a pilots license."

Well this'll probably get me banned but what the hell, it's a slow news day and I'm in a bit of a mood so...

This flight crew made an honest to goodness mistake, albeit a costly one. Odds are either one or both of them are looking for work now so how about until such a day you can lay claim to being perfect you go on ahead and enjoy a healthy cup of shut the @#$! up with your morning bowl of asshole flakes, mkay? I bet you're a real treat to fly with, no wonder you can't seem to get a job.

Ban away.

-Toeless
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Nark » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:08 am

Toeless,

I call shenanigans.
Regardless of how the tow bar was left in, responsibility for said mistake needs to be addressed. Whether it's getting shit canned, or retraining, something needs to be corrected in the culture.

I was checking out a new guy in the '99 and tried my best to instill the urgency of getting off the ground in a timely fashion. I told the brand new PIC to close up the back, (cargo) and I'll grab the pod and nose doors and meet you up front.
I was right seat, and he climbed in using the ladder. I made sure he grabbed it. All was great. We started up and tookoff on time. Landed on time, all was still great.
Until we landed, and I opened up the cargo door. Every single box that was was loaded in the front section (should have been closed and secured in that section) was at my eye level in the back.
If we were carrying more than the 400lbs, that load shift could have very well killed us.

I chewed the guy's ass out for rushing and not securing the cargo. However it was me that caused it. I fostered a "hurry up we need to go" mentality. I was at fault for not instilling an atmosphere, ensuring proper procedures need to be accomplished before departure time. Regardless if it's on time.

I have no doubt the same "attitude" was present in this case.

The take away: even the most junior person can step up and ask, "do you want me to remove the tow bar?"

Fostering that kind of atmosphere is what a professional pilot should be doing.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by toelessjoe » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:33 am

Nark wrote:Toeless,

I call shenanigans.
Regardless of how the tow bar was left in, responsibility for said mistake needs to be addressed. Whether it's getting shit canned, or retraining, something needs to be corrected in the culture.

I was checking out a new guy in the '99 and tried my best to instill the urgency of getting off the ground in a timely fashion. I told the brand new PIC to close up the back, (cargo) and I'll grab the pod and nose doors and meet you up front.
I was right seat, and he climbed in using the ladder. I made sure he grabbed it. All was great. We started up and tookoff on time. Landed on time, all was still great.
Until we landed, and I opened up the cargo door. Every single box that was was loaded in the front section (should have been closed and secured in that section) was at my eye level in the back.
If we were carrying more than the 400lbs, that load shift could have very well killed us.

I chewed the guy's ass out for rushing and not securing the cargo. However it was me that caused it. I fostered a "hurry up we need to go" mentality. I was at fault for not instilling an atmosphere, ensuring proper procedures need to be accomplished before departure time. Regardless if it's on time.

I have no doubt the same "attitude" was present in this case.

The take away: even the most junior person can step up and ask, "do you want me to remove the tow bar?"



Fostering that kind of atmosphere is what a professional pilot should be doing.
I'm not looking to make excuses for the flight crew; they effed up and either will have to or already have had to pay the piper. My issue is
with the dipshit poster and his holier than tho attitude. The lesson to be learned here is a fairly obvious one and can be easily discerned minus the condescending smugness from some basement dwelling little peckerhead whose only contribution thus far to aviation seems to be that of checklist reader. I think the other lesson to be taken away from this post is that any a$$hole with a keyboard can be an aviation expert nowadays.

And Nark, good on you for admitting you've once made a mistake that very well could have killed you. Seriously, this forum would be a much better place to visit if others such as this Nicky Nick person could leave their God complex at the door. PM me sometime and i'll give you a list of my sins (there have been many) :lol: .

Cheers,


Toeless.
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Last edited by toelessjoe on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

plhought
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by plhought » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:10 pm

That must have been a pretty good tow-bar. I don't trust the stupid thing to stay attached on the ground half the time.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Bent wrench » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:53 pm

This is absolutely hilarious. it's pretty easy to tell if the tow bar is off before leaving. Did they start both engines with the tents on too?
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by trey kule » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:46 pm

Hilarious. really?

A damaged plane that the company will have to pay to repair, or pay the insurance deductable...how funny is that.

Pax confidence in the company damaged as a result of this incident...heck, that is funny too, right?
After all the pilots can just go on to other jobs .

And the danger that the bar posed if it had partially come off and swung into a prop?
That would have been hilarious too. Or maybe hit the ground first on the landing.

Not to mention the chuckles from not doing a proper walk around, following SOPs, or using a checklist..
Gut splitting.

This was a big error, that fortunately had a fixable, no one hurt conclusion.

I suppose some will see those things as funny. And celebrate this error as a learning experience

Get sloppy on your duties and responsabilities, and eventually the holes in the swiss cheese line up...

But funny...no
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Shady McSly » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:10 pm

Not even a little bit funny? Like 5%?
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:21 am

Saw a 172 do a circuit with a concrete block still tied to the tail tie down! He said, "It didn't handle real well...." NSS!
I've got away with stuff prior to social media......or I would have been roasted once a week here.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by trey kule » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:34 pm

I've got away with stuff prior to social media......or I would have been roasted once a week here.
Illya
Lol...so true for all us old guys..

Now lets get back to the lynching,.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by 5x5 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:46 am

Interesting comments. Where do we draw the line? Or is there a line to draw?

There have been many discussions about accidents and who or what is to blame and they're all the same. Some people say blame the pilots and some say that anyone can make a mistake. But others will say no one should ever (since they never have) land gear up. Or no one should ever enter a compromised runway since they never have. Or no one should ever do whatever.

So it seems we all pick and choose when to be judgemental and when not to be. Calling each other names like school kids doesn't help. Let's all just read the threads and take away what we want from them - either reminders that any one of us can make a mistake if we don't consistently guard against it or confirmation that we are guarding against it well as we haven't had any such incident.

I sure wish that the bickering and name calling would diminish though.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Gear Jerker » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:41 pm

Well, here's my 2 cents. Although with our dollar right now I guess it's more like a cent and a half.

Everyone screws things up, some people screw lots of things up, some people screw the same things up more than once. Some people are perfect for weeks/months on end, and then f*ck up frequently for a while. There is no such thing as a perfect pilot, and that's okay.

What is not okay is not being committed to always learning from our inevitable mistakes, and doing our damnedest not to repeat them.

The OP's comments demonstrate the antithesis of this mindset.

Personally, I keep a log of my f*ckups, and try to extract all the learning I can if/when they happen. There are lots of things I've managed not to f*ckup so far, and there are also some that I swore I never would, and have.

You might even say that aviation advances one f*ckup at a time, as long as people learn from it, and don't just bash the responsible party(ies).
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by KAG » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:28 am

Its funny in a "i just dodged getting hit by a train" sort of way...its not. It could have had much worse consequences then ones pride. Luckily it didn't.
Mistakes happen, even though we like to believe we won't make them, and this is a great reminder for us all to do our jobs properly.

To the crew that this happened too, I feel for ya. I've been there (maybe in that same plane, IND by chance?). Learn all you can from this and move forward.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by CFR » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:18 am

Personally on my small plane the tow bar is only on when I am actually moving the plane. Every time I stop it comes off and is put on the ground beside the wheel. Many of the Piper tow bars for Cherokees are designed to basically fall out when you let them down but they tend to fall out when your pulling as well. Because this can be annoying, some tow bars are modified with a lock to keep them in place, defeating the self releasing feature.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:17 pm

At our company we have a sock that is put over the throttle if the plane is tied down, has prop tethers, chocks, tow bar etc installed.

Before as an instructor I've caught a few students getting back into the plane with the tow bar on, if your hand isn't on the bar, the bar isn't on the plane.
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Re: Voyageur Airways King Air tow bar left attached

Post by Sulako » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:54 pm

When people screw this stuff up, we all get exasperated. Except it seems like that's a masking emotion. We get mad at them, but at the same time, every single one of us says "Oh yeah, that totally almost happened to me too, except for ...*reason X*"

They screwed up. We get to laugh. But most of us are a hairs-length, once in a while, from being the person we are talking about in this scenario. I just wanted to acknowledge that, and try to be kind to two of our brothers (or sisters) who happened to get caught out.

Yeah, obvs they should have checked. But. Once in a while, for whatever reason, I may not have been 100% on the walkaround. I really, really, really try, but I'm still not perfect. Are you?
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