Citation down North of Kelowna

[altiplano]

I didn't read the report, but in response to above comments...

I did years of early reports, followed by sitting all day in a hotel and then late flights home.

They are very tiring. Flipping report times to the other side of the clock is difficult. 2 duty periods in the same day is difficult. Day in, day out... do it regularly and the effect compounds.

Aside from that though, he may not have been tired, but it's possible he was... maybe he didn't manage to sleep in the day from either lack of success of lack of trying...

[Billy the Goat]

I didn't read the report, but in response to above comments...

I did years of early reports, followed by sitting all day in a hotel and then late flights home.

They are very tiring. Flipping report times to the other side of the clock is difficult. 2 duty periods in the same day is difficult. Day in, day out... do it regularly and the effect compounds.

Aside from that though, he may not have been tired, but it's possible he was... maybe he didn't manage to sleep in the day from either lack of success of lack of trying...

This is basically my point. I have done it often as well. I dislike it. It’s tiring and error prone and that’s with two crew members. This sort of day combined with all of the factors mentioned previously is not a good recipe.

[Diadem]

Then it's the pilot's responsibility to report that (s)he's unfit for duty. How do you know that the pilot in this situation didn't nap for eight hours? What changes to the duty regs would you like to see? You can only check in once in a calendar day?

[mbav8r]

Then it's the pilot's responsibility to report that (s)he's unfit for duty. How do you know that the pilot in this situation didn't nap for eight hours? What changes to the duty regs would you like to see? You can only check in once in a calendar day?

YES!

To answer your question, how do you know the pilot didn’t nap for 8 hours, years of medevacs where your good until or fresh at tells me this pilot did not nap for 8 hours. You cannot go to bed the night before a duty day begins, work 2 hours and somehow go back to bed for your 8 hour prone rest period.
Whether or not fatigue played a role is up for debate but to suggest this pilot was reset by how long he was on the ground is absurd. This was a continuous duty day split by a very long time in between and he may or may not have rested at all, probably should have but I guarantee it wasn’t 8 hours continuous prone rest.
T.C should be cracking down on this type of “reset” but have turned a blind eye for as long as I’ve been flying and no doubt much longer than that.

[ditar]

What changes to the duty regs would you like to see? You can only check in once in a calendar day?

I second the yes. Anything else ignores biology.

[MrWings]

I find the entire report and recommendations unsatisfying.

There are all kinds of possibilities of what went wrong. They chose one but it is just a guess.

So now they want aircraft to have flight data recorders to make their jobs easier so they don't have to guess. Just another cost to the operators that is not guaranteed to give all the answers.

The glaring portion missed by the media is the lack of oversight by Transport Canada. This has been stated time and time again in other findings yet nothing changes. We are more likely to get mandatory FDRs rather than accountability to follow rules already in place.

[Cliff Jumper]

There are all kinds of possibilities of what went wrong. They chose one but it is just a guess.

Wait, what?

I didn't see a cause finding? Did I miss something?

[cncpc]

I thought it was a well written report.

If you really look at this closely, the aircraft is not following the clearance track almost from liftoff. Its vertical profile seems normalish, but there is a lack of directional control early on. That looks like hand flying. The pilot didn't seem to think there was a problem as he was normal on the initial call to center. It seemed to be the turn on course where whatever was wrong became really wrong.

This man took a somewhat unusual course to the left seat of a Citation and it seems nobody asked whether he should have been there.

[Roar]

For those of you claiming fatigue was an issue I'm interested to know what you think would have been acceptable given this days flights.

Now before some of you get all up in arms, I'll preface my comments by saying yes current duty time regulations for commuter and airline operations are in need of change as chronic fatigue is an issue. In this accident it was not the case though. This particular pilot had only flown 3.4 hrs in the last 7 days and 7.1 hrs in the past 30 days, hardly a fatiguing schedule.
As for the day in question with preflight, flight and post flight duties in the morning he worked 2.5 hrs then a couple more preflight hours before the accident for a total of 4.5 hrs duty with an opportunity for a full 8 hrs rest in between.
This was not a hard work schedule and I have to agree with the TSB report that fatigue was not a factor.

[CpnCrunch]

The guy wasn't current for flying passengers at night. While that in itself won't necessarily cause a crash, it does indicate that he doesn't really seem to take his responsibilities seriously.

[Oldguystrtn2fly]

The guy wasn't current for flying passengers at night. While that in itself won't necessarily cause a crash, it does indicate that he doesn't really seem to take his responsibilities seriously.

Was he not a commercial pilot?

[NPSH]

Looking at this pilots overall background, experience level and what not begs the question why he himself thought it prudent to fly single pilot in a Citation 500, an aircraft that was his first exposure to high performance flying.

[CpnCrunch]

Was he not a commercial pilot?

Yes, but that doesn't affect night passenger currency.

[NPSH]

I thought it was a well written report.

If you really look at this closely, the aircraft is not following the clearance track almost from liftoff. Its vertical profile seems normalish, but there is a lack of directional control early on. That looks like hand flying. The pilot didn't seem to think there was a problem as he was normal on the initial call to center. It seemed to be the turn on course where whatever was wrong became really wrong.

This man took a somewhat unusual course to the left seat of a Citation and it seems nobody asked whether he should have been there.

Have to agree, especially single pilot operations on a Citation 500.