Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

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Kingairboss
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Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Kingairboss » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:23 pm

https://www.kenoraonline.com/local/safe ... ng-by-dc-3

"The Transportation Safety Board of Canada will be attending Pickle Lake tomorrow to investigate a crash landing.

Earlier today, at about 12:20 p.m., Pickle Lake OPP officers attended the Pickle Lake airport to investigate an incident, in which an aircraft had to make an emergency landing.

The plane has been identified as a DC3 cargo plane. The two pilots and one crew member were uninjured."
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by PilotDAR » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:38 pm

Without knowing any details, it appears that the propellers were turning, when the aircraft made fairly even and controlled contact with the surface. It's nice to hear no one was hurt. It looks like the investigation will not be too taxing for the TSB...

This aircraft was shown in early promotional photos, of an indirect origin...

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=85693&hilit=cargo+north+basler
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by marlin » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Glad everyone is alright.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Cat Driver » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:47 pm

That will be expensive.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by AEROMONKEY » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:23 pm

Right side engine doesn't look as damaged as the left?
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Surfer Dude » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:48 pm

CYPL 171700Z 15005KT 3/4SM -SN VV006 M02/M03 A2978 RMK SN8 SLP107
CYPL 171734Z 14007KT 3/4SM -SN VV005 M01/M03 A2978 RMK SN8 SLP106
CYPL 171800Z 15006KT 5/8SM -SN VV005 M01/M03 A2977 RMK SN8 /S05/ SLP105

Could be white out. Looks like some low vis at the time. Definitely well below any advisory vis for an approach there.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Kzanol » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:32 pm

Both propellers don't look the same, which makes me think maybe one didn't have the same power as the other. Also that picture sure looks like it's on the lake, not the airport.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by GyvAir » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:12 pm

Prop damage analysis from a grainy online photo is dodgy science, at best. That said, I’ll jump right in and say that the damage to the blades themselves doesn’t look that dissimilar, left to right. Some of the left pitch linkage looks to have been broken, though.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Cat Driver » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:49 am

It would appear the gear was up when it contacted the snow.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Surfer Dude » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:44 am

If it was an intentional forced landing would you leave the gear up on a snow covered lake? Could prevent flipping over.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Cat Driver » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:41 am

If it was an intentional forced landing would you leave the gear up on a snow covered lake? Could prevent flipping over.
It would depend on the surface I chose to make the forced landing.

Why would the pilots of a twin engine turbo prop transport category airplane need to force land on a lake with the gear up?
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Adam Oke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:44 am

Glad the crew is ok.

Poor airplane. I don't chase metal, but that DC3 is one I would like to take out for a rip.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Surfer Dude » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:50 am

That's why I initially suspected CFIT. Especially considering the weather conditions.

Mechanical reasons I can think of could include fuel starvation/contamination, and an engine failure with a propeller feathering failure. What else could there be?

If the gear failed to extend through normal and emergency procedures would you ever consider landing on the snow to save some air frame damage? I don't think I would be so bold.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Meatservo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:15 am

I would be willing to bet you'll see her back in the air in a couple of months, if not sooner. Excepting the engines, I don't suppose this DC-3 is particularly badly damaged.

Luckily, the TSB will be able to figure out what happened here pretty easily.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by telex » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:31 am

Why would the pilots of a twin engine turbo prop transport category airplane need to force land on a lake with the gear up?
Obviously trained post 1957 on a C172.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by godsrcrazy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:27 am

Meatservo wrote:I would be willing to bet you'll see her back in the air in a couple of months, if not sooner. Excepting the engines, I don't suppose this DC-3 is particularly badly damaged.

Luckily, the TSB will be able to figure out what happened here pretty easily.
It is going to have to be a whole lot quicker then a couple of months. Looks to me like its on a lake. Not sure how close a airstrip is away.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by New Flyer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:38 am

What would a (presumably) empty DC3 weigh?
Plus the weight of a crane, flatbed etc and all related rescue equipment. Yeah, they will have to move quick, although I am sure there is probably still lots of ice.
Is there a way to track the course this flight took? I tried looking on Flightaware, but couldn't find it. Not that I am much of an expert on flightaware!!
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Meatservo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:33 am

I would say that lifting it up, dropping the gear, sticking a couple of engines on it and ploughing a runway is all they need to do to get it back to a repair facility on a ferry permit. Three, four day's work, maybe less. Might not even need a crane, if you could get some of those air-bags under the wings and raise it enough to get jacks under it. I'm sure the tail wheel is fine.

But then the proper repairs including any damage to the firewalls, belly skins and flap bottoms might take a bit longer before you see her hauling freight again.

A DC3's wheels actually protrude a bit when they are retracted, so depending on the snow depth and consistency, who knows if the damage is really all that bad anyway? edit: In fact, looking at the picture again, judging by the light under the inner wing, the port undercarriage is supporting the nacelle. Other than the engines, she might be barely damaged at all.


This could have been way worse. I'm happy the crew are OK, but I am also sure the old bird isn't too poorly either.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by AEROMONKEY » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:37 am

Accident happened immediately after takeoff ..the lake is right off the end of the runway.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Surfer Dude » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:36 pm

What's the rule for taking off below landing minima? A takeoff alternate within 60 minutes on single engine?

I don't think YRL would have worked as an alternate as it was low there also with the following forecast:

TAF AMD CYRL 171404Z 1714/1802 15007KT 3/4SM -SHSN VV005
TEMPO 1714/1718 2SM -SN OVC008
BECMG 1715/1717 33010KT FM171800 34010KT 2SM -SN OVC006
TEMPO 1718/1720 6SM -SN OVC010 FM172000 36015G25KT 5SM
-SN OVC020
TEMPO 1720/1802 P6SM -SN RMK NXT FCST BY 172000Z=

YGQ would have been good but is 160nm away. Can the BT-67 do 160 kts on one engine? Is there another closer airport served with a TAF?
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by tvguru » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:55 pm

Surfer Dude wrote:What's the rule for taking off below landing minima? A takeoff alternate within 60 minutes on single engine?
Landing alternate within 60min with both engines running.

Edit: Looks like I'm out to lunch again.
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Last edited by tvguru on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Surfer Dude » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:43 pm

Oh my mistake, is it not a 705 aircraft?
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by Bacunayagua » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:56 pm

Considering it has an MTOW of well over 28 thousand pounds and a seat capacity of 38. I'd say it's definitely a transport category aircraft.
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by TG » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:31 pm

Does anyone know what actually happened?
Can't even find a Cador about it (if any)
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Re: Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:28 pm

CADORs usually take a few days to show up. Remember this is also a weekend now, so you might see a CADOR on Tuesday.
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