AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

[C.W.E.]

Not every AC pilot is as smart and literate as you are.

That may be true.

But that incident really pushed the limits of no situational awareness period regardless of that crews intelligence or lack thereof.

[pelmet]

Maybe one should point out that the NTSB recommended that the NOTAM system sucks and should be changed (A-18-24)

“From a human factors perspective, the preflight briefing system is archaic and poorly designed....

The current system prioritizes protecting the regulatory authorities and airports. It lays an impossibly heavy burden on individual pilots, crews and dispatchers to sort through literally dozens of irrelevant items to find the critical or merely important ones. When one is invariably missed, and a violation or incident occurs, the pilot is blamed for not finding the needle in the haystack!”

It’s hard to disagree with that.

The notam system can be improved. However, remember that even if they didn't read the notam about 28L or forgot about 28L being closed after having read the appropriate notam(along with the approach lights with that runway not being illuminated)....this information was provided for pilots in the ATIS. Assuming the Airbus ATIS info is like modern Boeing's, it is either displayed or printed out. One should read through what the ATIS says. It can be easy to quickly gloss over it, concentrating on the weather and not the other info....which on occasion can be important.

Best to read the notams thoroughly. On a long flight like this there can be plenty of time for a review if time is short prior to departure. On a shorter flight, not much choice but to plow through them somehow.

Still, not everybody reads them. I met a Japanese pilot who had worked in America for a while at several commuter airlines. Like most Japanese, he was very thorough. I asked him what he thought of pilots/operations in the US and one of his comments was how very few of the pilots read the notams. He said that he was told more than once that ATC will pass on any relevant info. I suppose they did in the AC incident in SFO(via the ATIS) but it was still interesting to hear this.

[pelmet]

Finally finished the official accident report by the NTSB. Most stuff has already been discussed in the thread but a couple of things to note.....

The flight crew stated that they did remember seeing the green centerline lights of the taxiway while on final. Remember....if you see green centerline lights where you plan to takeoff or land, DO NOT takeoff or land on that surface as it is a taxiway. Runway centerline lights(if installed) are white.

The report says that the crew were unaware that runway 28L was closed but at the beginning of the report it was stated that the captain had said in his second post-incident interview that they discussed the 28L planned closure but did not put much emphasis on it because they expected to arrive prior to the closure time(they were actually scheduled to arrive 3 minutes after). However, they took a 30 minute departure delay. When there is a significant delay, it is not a bad idea to ask yourself if there is anything that could be different due to the delay. Maybe it is a forecast weather change for the alternate that could change desired fuel or in this case, a notam that could be significant. Perhaps something to mention or take note of in the briefing such as..."this notam won't effect us unless we take a delay". That might make it more likely to be remembered if there is a delay instead of being totally forgotten.

[pelmet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5II-s_j ... e=youtu.be

[Eric Janson]

Assuming the Airbus ATIS info is like modern Boeing's, it is either displayed or printed out. One should read through what the ATIS says. It can be easy to quickly gloss over it, concentrating on the weather and not the other info....which on occasion can be important.

Best to read the notams thoroughly. On a long flight like this there can be plenty of time for a review if time is short prior to departure. On a shorter flight, not much choice but to plow through them somehow.

The airbus I fly does not have D-ATIS capability and not all airports I fly to have a D-ATIS or even an ATIS at all!

Some airports I fly to do not issue METAR or TAF information. I'm still regularly calling tower prior to descent to get the latest weather and runway in use.

On my 12 hour flight we can have well over 170 pages of NOTAMs including Origin/Destination/Enroute/Alternate Airports and FIRs. It's very easy to miss something. We remote dispatch - I get e-mailed a package of documents that I try to examine before reporting time.

2 years ago my destination airport was closed for 30 minutes while the President of the country arrived. Nothing in the NOTAMs about this - fortunately we had extra fuel with us which we used waiting for the airport to reopen.

Lots of fun arriving at your destination to find that because the first 2000' of runway was closed they'd turned off the G/S and DME part of the ILS and the VOR was off the air with the DME still working - leaving us with no approaches. No NOTAMs about this either.

[pelmet]

Assuming the Airbus ATIS info is like modern Boeing's, it is either displayed or printed out. One should read through what the ATIS says. It can be easy to quickly gloss over it, concentrating on the weather and not the other info....which on occasion can be important.

Best to read the notams thoroughly. On a long flight like this there can be plenty of time for a review if time is short prior to departure. On a shorter flight, not much choice but to plow through them somehow.

The airbus I fly does not have D-ATIS capability and not all airports I fly to have a D-ATIS or even an ATIS at all!

Thanks,

I believe that this crew had a printout/display of the ATIS available for reading. I guess it is an option.