It's time to buzz the tower

[GyvAir]

[Rowdy]

The level of butthurt in this thread is incredible.

[trey kule]

You know, about 34 years ago, a young German pilot got hold of a 172 and flew it to Russia and landed in Red Square in Moscow.



Sometimes in this modern world we have to stop with the sanctimonious self rightous indignation, and simply sit back and say....neat.

It does not mean we approve of it. Just that it brought a smile to our face in this social media dominated world of haters.

[atphat]

If the plane was empty, sure. It wasn’t. I’m pretty shocked at the responses on this thread. I’m just assuming most are GA pilots. It is not the place of a professional pilot to ever have “fun” at the controls with people on board. Ever. This isn’t a difference of opinion. Want to be treated and perceived as a professional? Act like one. It’s so incredibly black and white.

[digits_]

If the plane was empty, sure. It wasn’t. I’m pretty shocked at the responses on this thread. I’m just assuming most are GA pilots. It is not the place of a professional pilot to ever have “fun” at the controls with people on board. Ever. This isn’t a difference of opinion. Want to be treated and perceived as a professional? Act like one. It’s so incredibly black and white.

- tower approved it
- according to at least one article his company approved it
- no limits on the airplane were exceeded
- passengers were not panicking, they either didn't care or were briefed

[rookiepilot]

I'm curious if the pilots here, -- answer honestly -- would be pleased if they were sitting in the back of their company A/C..., or another carrier, and the pilot did something like this without you knowing anything in advance.

My guess is most of you would be less than pleased.

Not dangerous.

Not particularly cool, professional, with (non pilot ) passengers to do any abnormal maneuvers, in any sized aircraft from a 150 on up...stalls, spins....IMO, and especially without prior permission......things can go wrong.

[Rockie]

If the plane was empty, sure. It wasn’t. I’m pretty shocked at the responses on this thread. I’m just assuming most are GA pilots. It is not the place of a professional pilot to ever have “fun” at the controls with people on board. Ever. This isn’t a difference of opinion. Want to be treated and perceived as a professional? Act like one. It’s so incredibly black and white.

- tower approved it
- according to at least one article his company approved it
- no limits on the airplane were exceeded
- passengers were not panicking, they either didn't care or were briefed

- so no ATC violation
- so (maybe) no trouble from the company
- no limits exceeded, but aircraft not flown according to SOP’s or Airbus procedures - with passengers on board during a commercial flight. Hmmm.
- heresay, and totally irrelevant.

[digits_]

- no limits exceeded, but aircraft not flown according to SOP’s or Airbus procedures - with passengers on board during a commercial flight. Hmmm.
- heresay, and totally irrelevant.

- I am pretty sure pilots are allowed to deviate from SOPs for operational reasons. if you want to do something, approved by the company, it implies the company allows you to deviate from the SOPs if so required. But a grey area yes.
- I used the recording from inside the plane as reference for that. Nobody was screaming in there. If people were panicking you'd hear something different.

[Rockie]

- no limits exceeded, but aircraft not flown according to SOP’s or Airbus procedures - with passengers on board during a commercial flight. Hmmm.
- heresay, and totally irrelevant.

- I am pretty sure pilots are allowed to deviate from SOPs for operational reasons. if you want to do something, approved by the company, it implies the company allows you to deviate from the SOPs if so required. But a grey area yes.
- I used the recording from inside the plane as reference for that. Nobody was screaming in there. If people were panicking you'd hear something different.

Pilots can deviate from SOP’s for reasons of safety which hardly applies here, and SOP’s are approved by the regulator along with the company ops manual. The company cannot approve impromptu air displays outside of procedures during revenue commercial flights any more than pilots can. And just because you can’t hear anybody screaming or panicking doesn’t make it true, or in any way relevant.

[confusedalot]

If this was a totally irresponsible display of recklessness that scared the poop out of everybody, warranting that the crew be nailed to the wall, or worse, all I can say is, we live in a world of puritanical zealots.

We used to do a SID in KBOS back in 80-90 that required a swift right turn as soon as possible which brought us straight over downtown. Go figure.

Give it a rest, all concerned were in the loop and nobody was even close to getting hurt. I would be very surprised that the crew intentionally deviated from ATS and/or missed approach instructions whatever they may have been.

[Rockie]

An Airbus is not a Cessna 172 where you just push the power up a bit and turn left, there is an established and trained go-around procedure which they did not do. The point here being that had the crew and airline planned this, gotten approval, and done it empty you could all admire it to your heart’s content. But they did it with passengers on board.

The surprising thing here is that so many experienced professional pilots are unaware of the expectations civil aviation authorities have when you are carrying passengers. It’s all about SOP’s and safety. Some of you may have, and all of you should have heard the term “intentional non-compliance”. It means you are deliberately not following the SOP’s and regulator approved company policies. In today’s world that is a no-no.

You want to do a fly past go right ahead, just don’t do it with passengers on board or you’ll suffer the entirely predictable consequences. Part of being a professional is knowing what the rules and expectations are. Step outside those and you’re on your own.

[Cat Driver]

If this was a totally irresponsible display of recklessness that scared the poop out of everybody, warranting that the crew be nailed to the wall, or worse, all I can say is, we live in a world of puritanical zealots.

We used to do a SID in KBOS back in 80-90 that required a swift right turn as soon as possible which brought us straight over downtown. Go figure.

Give it a rest, all concerned were in the loop and nobody was even close to getting hurt. I would be very surprised that the crew intentionally deviated from ATS and/or missed approach instructions whatever they may have been.

Read the above again everyone and lets just let this useless argument disappear into the dust bin of history.

[Rockie]

If this was a totally irresponsible display of recklessness that scared the poop out of everybody, warranting that the crew be nailed to the wall, or worse, all I can say is, we live in a world of puritanical zealots.

We used to do a SID in KBOS back in 80-90 that required a swift right turn as soon as possible which brought us straight over downtown. Go figure.

Give it a rest, all concerned were in the loop and nobody was even close to getting hurt. I would be very surprised that the crew intentionally deviated from ATS and/or missed approach instructions whatever they may have been.

Read the above again everyone and lets just let this useless argument disappear into the dust bin of history.

How is a published departure procedure related to this event? I must be missing something.

There are too many retired vintage aircraft pilots and other people who don’t know what they’re talking about saying “no big deal”. Well...it is if you want to keep working in this industry today so if you’re new to this game choose wisely whose advice you listen to.

[altiplano]

Nothing here was unsafe, they were operating within the aircraft's limits and with a clearance.

Should they have done it?
While I realize the correct answer is "No" in today's environment... The better part of me screams "Yes"!

In the Glory Days of our industry, flyovers and sight seeing on A-B flights used to be the norm. Before someone with a stick up their ass and cost control became the drivers...

Sounds like a suspension is justice enough considering these guys are losing their jobs anyway... I wouldn't go looking to hang these guys.

[Rockie]

I wouldn’t look to hang them either, but it would be their last chance. Of course if a passenger decides to sue because of the actions of the crew how is it defensible? Citing the “glory days” of aviation?

Surely you know these aren’t the “glory days” of aviation anymore, and that the next generation will be looking at today as the glory days. You also no doubt know what “intentional non-compliance” means and how what this crew did fits alongside that definition. If not you’d better learn PDQ.

Lament the good old days all you like, but if you do stupid stuff in an airplane you know, or should have known will land you in a pile of shit who do you have to blame?

Today isn’t yesterday...

[GyvAir]

I'm going over to the other Canadian aviation forum to get the final word on this issue, along with the inevitable and somehow loosely associated aerobatics videos from CS. Wish me luck!

[Cat Driver]

For sure you will get a different slant on things over there.

[Meatservo]

I just felt that burst of excitement one feels when one has an epiphany: thanks to Rockie, I just suddenly and unequivocally decided on the title of the book I want to write about flying:

“Intentional Non-Compliance”

Look for it on the shelves in about ten years. I’m waiting that long to officially become “an old guy” in case something else interesting happens. Seems unlikely but you never know.

Thanks Rockie!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Today isn’t yesterday...

Sadly this is the truth....

[Rockie]

I just felt that burst of excitement one feels when one has an epiphany: thanks to Rockie, I just suddenly and unequivocally decided on the title of the book I want to write about flying:

“Intentional Non-Compliance”

Look for it on the shelves in about ten years. I’m waiting that long to officially become “an old guy” in case something else interesting happens. Seems unlikely but you never know.

Thanks Rockie!

I don’t make the rules, I’m just telling you what they are.