Westwind

[77W]

Who is picking up the slack for Westwind during this busy part of the year? I see nothing but a couple transwest 1900's flying around. Surely they can't fill the void? I'm in no way stirring the pot, but those miners and scheduled passengers can't be happy.

Secondly, what sort of "deficiencies" could lead to the grounding of the airline? Would being dispatched into an area where freezing precipitation is occurring count??

[Illya Kuryakin]

Considering the that Westwind flight crews are highly paid, very experienced, and well trained, I do not think that CFIT is even a possability.

Its not like they are hiring just anyone, or have a rather haphazard training program Not when you are paying your crews top dollar and treat them well.

Like all Canadian operators, Safety is job one.

It has to be Alien intervention

Whatever the foreign intervention was, is the accident sequence itself. Each is different; none are identical. The mandate of an investigation is to take individual items/factors and piece together. I agree that saying CFIT, a well intended investigative term which seemed to have been born out of a frustration of so many avoidable accidents years ago, may not have any preventative value here at all.

Where does this verbal meandering come from?? “a well intended investigative term.....”. Do you even know what “black hole effect” is? Do you actually even fly? The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.....
Illya

[Stan Darsh]

Whenever I read pdw's posts I feel like I'm having a stroke.

[Cliff Jumper]

New government, timely information from TSB. That can ONLY be due to a very serious change in policy that came from on high.

I don't think the TSB is influenced by the shifting of politicians... or at least it shouldn't be.

Maybe the push is from within?

[Wyatt Earp]

9 Unread post Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:53 am

Transport pulling the OC is different from the norm..........there's a lower mainland s***show company that parallels this and they are still running despite numerous fines and warnings so maybe a change in TC attitude is coming

This is not the lower mainland. The lower mainland is under Pacific Region which seems to have a little more common sense than Winnipeg office. The inspectors in Winnipeg run their audits to their own ideas and don’t stick to the CARs. They expect operators to meet their own personal expectations. Where these operators would pass audits in all other regions they won’t pass in Winnipeg. It is a culture in that office that has been passed on to new inspectors for years.

[pelmet]

Considering the that Westwind flight crews are highly paid, very experienced, and well trained, I do not think that CFIT is even a possability.

Its not like they are hiring just anyone, or have a rather haphazard training program Not when you are paying your crews top dollar and treat them well.

Never make an assumption, positive or negative in an investigation. At least not in the early stages. Bias/emotion affects logical process.

Other than he well paid comment, I’m not on board with CFIT either. This is far from their first rodeo. These guys would be maintaining a positive rate.....
Illya

I am glad that you are not an investigator. Pre-conceived notions would be a sign of incompetence for an investigator.

[trey kule]

The internet is an interesting place.

I was not in the least bit serious.that they have experienced , well trained, or highly paid crews. Sarcasm was apparently lost.

Lets wait and see what comes out of their OC being suspended....

[pelmet]

The internet is an interesting place.

I was not in the least bit serious.that they have experienced , well trained, or highly paid crews. Sarcasm was apparently lost.

Lets wait and see what comes out of their OC being suspended....

Sorry, I don't really know anything about their operation which can make it difficult to pick up on sarcasm sometimes. I'm sure like most companies, they have their stronger and weaker flight crew members.

[schnitzel2k3]

Likely decades of dispatching into areas of known icing, and departing an airstrip with no de-icing support during said periods of icing.

They used to have a well staffed and strong flight department but there was a leak to the mainlines that started a while back and they have been having trouble plugging the hole.

Despite this terrible news, Merry Christmas to everyone celebrating at home and abroad, stay safe out there. Hopefully WWA can recover soon and get these discrepancies sorted out.

S.

[Blueontop]

Unfortunately this is now a fatal accident.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/sask ... -1.4465220

[gwagen]

Unfortunately this is now a fatal accident.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/sask ... -1.4465220

Yes, very sad. Those responsible should be hung from the highest yardarm.

Whether the management or pilots or both, barring a mechanical failure, if this was caused by poor judgement and was otherwise preventable.

It’s murder and attempted murder, they deserve the full extent of the law.

When you are in the cockpit whether right or left seat and you have passengers, they have entrusted their lives to you and you are responsible for them.

Taking off in icing with ice on the aircraft is inexcusable regardless of outcome of the takeoff.

[trey kule]

This is great learning experience!

[ba31pilot]

gwagen,

Before you go ahead and anoint yourself judge, jury and executioner, maybe we should let the TSB do their investigation. While this was a terrible accident and now a very sad tragedy with the addition of a fatality, let the outcome be determined by professionals. The couch potato peanut gallery who choose to cast their premature guilty verdict are not assisting in any way.

This may turn out to be an error on someone's part or just a very unfortunate mechanical failure during a critical phase of flight. For those who are still dealing with this, please show some restraint and respect.

[C.W.E.]

This may turn out to be an error on someone's part or just a very unfortunate mechanical failure during a critical phase of flight.

Now that there has been a fatality the TSB may take this a bit more seriously and try and find out if it was mechanical error and if it was they may release their findings soon?

It is now in the more serious accident category.

[rookiepilot]

gwagen,

we should let the TSB do their investigation.

Code for, shut up and whatever happens don't ever blame crew, cause they were probably pressured by evil management and can't make an independent decision. Am I close?

Maybe some of us actually get upset when people die, and that might be slightly more important than those "dealing with it".

WHATEVER -- the cause of this one -- STOP taking off into shitty weather cause one doesn't have the stones to stand up and say "No".

Fair?

I need sensitivity training.

[C.W.E.]

Code for, shut up and whatever happens don't ever blame crew, cause they were probably pressured by evil management and can't make an independent decision. Am I close?

Reading all his posts since he started on Avcanada he seems to know a lot about Westwind.

Maybe he can assure us that it had to be mechanical failure because they would never depart unless everything was legal.

[Donald]

From a friend of a friend, they were overweight and didn't use the whole runway.

Yet to be determined if ground/air icing was a contributing factor.

Explains the "lack of company oversight". Also makes it obvious the pilots will be hung out to dry and the company won't be standing behind them.

Good luck.

[atphat]

For the ATR drivers out there. Could you even be overweight with 22 pax?

[Donald]

For the ATR drivers out there. Could you even be overweight with 22 pax?

Without being an ATR driver, you could be overweight in an empty airplane, if you don't use the whole runway.

[PointyEngine]

For the ATR drivers out there. Could you even be overweight with 22 pax?

With freight and fuel, sure.