I guess if it was in SFO this would have been all over the news.Registration Mark: GJWE Foreign Registration:
Flight #: WEN3130 Flight Rule: IFR
Aircraft Category: Aeroplane Country of Registration: Canada
Aircraft Make: DEHAVILLAND Aircraft Model: DHC-8-402
Year Built: 2013 Amateur Built: No
Engine Make: PRATT & WHITNEY-CAN Engine Model: PW150A
Engine Type: Turbo prop Gear Type: Land
Phase Of Flight: Landing Damage: No Damage
Owner: Westjet Encore Ltd. Operator: WESTJET ENCORE LTD (17903)
Operator Type: Commercial CARs Subpart: 705
Aircraft Event Information
Navigation error
Communication error
Occurrence Summary
Date: 2018-01-04
Narrative: A WestJet Encore de Havilland DHC-8-402 (C-GJWE/WEN3130) on a flight from Prince George, BC (CYXS) to Vancouver, BC (CYVR) landed on Runway 26R without a landing clearance. Runway 26R was closed due to a dead coyote on the runway centreline at Taxiway M2. The Tower controller made numerous attempts to establish communication with the aircraft without success. The aircraft made contact with Tower North controller at Taxiway M6 as they were exiting the runway.
Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
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Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
- confusedalot
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
My guess is finger trouble....again... (could happen to anyone). They didn't line up with a taxiway though.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Finger trouble? There’s only 2 frequencies to switch to in YVR. If you haven’t received a clearance by 500’, wouldn’t you be asking some questions?
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Don't you make a call when changing frequency? I'm not really understanding how this would be possible, unless it's normal at YVR to just switch frequencies without talking to anyone.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:52 pm Finger trouble? There’s only 2 frequencies to switch to in YVR. If you haven’t received a clearance by 500’, wouldn’t you be asking some questions?
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Yes you do. 119.55 for the right side and 118.7 for the left. Let’s say arrival forgets to switch you over at TOTIM/BEXIM/EMKAM etc, you’d still call tower at the FAF. If you don’t hear back, there’s plenty of time to diagnose finger trouble. Do you just land anyways though without a clearance?CpnCrunch wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:16 pmDon't you make a call when changing frequency? I'm not really understanding how this would be possible, unless it's normal at YVR to just switch frequencies without talking to anyone.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:52 pm Finger trouble? There’s only 2 frequencies to switch to in YVR. If you haven’t received a clearance by 500’, wouldn’t you be asking some questions?
Edit: I should clarify. Often, approach will say “XXX knots to the FAF, and contact tower there.” Even if you forgot to switch to tower, why would you land without a clearance? Is this not part of a landing checklist / SOP?
- HansDietrich
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Too busy chatting?
Das ist mir wurst...
- confusedalot
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Hard to know what they were thinking. Sounds to me like two persons convinced themselves that they were on the right frequency and that they could do wrong....
It's the simple stuff that result in gotchas. Can't say that I have been hooped for something so simple, (it came close though) but time and again.......it's not the hard stuff that leads you up the garden path, it's the mindlessly simple things that cause problems.
Too busy chatting can easily be the culprit. I'll agree that it could be one of the possible reasons.
It's the simple stuff that result in gotchas. Can't say that I have been hooped for something so simple, (it came close though) but time and again.......it's not the hard stuff that leads you up the garden path, it's the mindlessly simple things that cause problems.
Too busy chatting can easily be the culprit. I'll agree that it could be one of the possible reasons.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Even if you think you are on the correct frequency, would you still land without clearance?
*IF* the information is correct, this would be much worse than the Air Canada one. Air Canada did have a clearance, Encore did not.
*IF* the information is correct, this would be much worse than the Air Canada one. Air Canada did have a clearance, Encore did not.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Not busy and VFR? No. Busy and/or marginal VFR? If the runway is clear, yes.
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
What time of day was it? Tell me all you arm chair quarter backs catch every radio call after a 3 am wake up.
Yes, they could have done,... Yes, they should have done,...
Yes, they could have done,... Yes, they should have done,...
- HansDietrich
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
You do realize that 90% of the people here are pilots, the majority of us flying for a living. Everyone misses calls. "CLEARED TO LAND" / "CLEARED FOR TAKE-OFF" are the ones that we pay very close attention to. Have I missed calls before? Sure. We failed to hold short of a taxiway, no traffic though, but it was only because we were yapping away.BE20 Driver wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:08 am What time of day was it? Tell me all you arm chair quarter backs catch every radio call after a 3 am wake up.
Yes, they could have done,... Yes, they should have done,...
Das ist mir wurst...
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Got it. Pilots are not responsible for non compliance with ATC clearances after 3 am wake up. Please correct me if I misinterpret your point.BE20 Driver wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:08 am What time of day was it? Tell me all you arm chair quarter backs catch every radio call after a 3 am wake up.
Yes, they could have done,... Yes, they should have done,...
Have a read here. I did. I didn't see anything about pilots being absolved from their responsibilities after a 3 am wake up.
http://www.canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1 ... 2-eng.html
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Of course we’ve all missed radio calls before. We’re only human. However, cleared to land is probably the biggest one you always want to hear. How many times have any of us been cleared to land, only to end up forgetting, etc and having to ask the controller one more time just to be sure? I know I have
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Poor, sad pilot. Had to wake up early and go to work. Life is so tough for pilots.
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Fatigue is incidious and not a joke. We lack behind almost every other country in the world. And not my a little bit either.
I have no idea if fatigue was a contributing factor in this incident but saying “poor pilots” blah blah is just straight up ignorant.
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Landing without clearance on a closed runway is a major screw up. Maybe at some uncontrolled airport you can cruise in without talking but at YVR? There is some info lacking here, why would they line up in the first place.
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Shit happens.
People make mistakes.
Chill the f*&k out nerdlingers.
People make mistakes.
Chill the f*&k out nerdlingers.
Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
Is that the new excuse for a crew landing without a clearance to land?Shit happens.
- confusedalot
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
I am guilty as well; have asked one more time, just in case, if I was actually cleared to land. Read fatigue.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:55 am Of course we’ve all missed radio calls before. We’re only human. However, cleared to land is probably the biggest one you always want to hear. How many times have any of us been cleared to land, only to end up forgetting, etc and having to ask the controller one more time just to be sure? I know I have
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
- confusedalot
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Re: Encore lands without clearance, off frequency.
That's funny. I suspect that you are superman who wakes up at any hour during the month and performs at 100%. Yep, 4am wake up followed by a 2pm wake up he next day tends to screw you up big time......
You can never understand unless you lived through it.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.