Aircraft down, CYSN
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
- CL-Skadoo!
- Rank 8
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:41 pm
- Location: Intensity in Ten Cities.
Aircraft down, CYSN
Looked like a C421, and C-GJKL was the last into the airport. I saw a ton of emergency vehicles and a tail sticking into the air close to the arrival end of 24, but intact. 24/06 is closed. Has anyone heard anything further? Hope to hear all a-ok.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Google found this: https://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/9 ... 62/photo/1
Engine troubles, landed in a field short of the runway. Three minor injuries treated on the scene, no one taken to hospital.
Engine troubles, landed in a field short of the runway. Three minor injuries treated on the scene, no one taken to hospital.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Good to see no one was seriously injured.
Last edited by JasonE on Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Looks like starts losing one about 30 minutes out, if I'm reading that correctly on flightaware (CF-JKL). This engine issue occurs up there at 8000ft, and then also shows about 10 minutes before landing was holding altitude for a duration of approx five minutes at 3000ft while stable at 96kts groundspeed (approaching YSN from northeast/YGK).
Word is only got slow on one after gear down late in approach, then apparently lost altitude more rapidly after that. Intentionally turns it away from the elevated approach-lights ... just clearing the perimeter fence to a fast stop on other side in rain-softened turf.
Wx-hist checks shows strong component-increases in the area (up to 30mph ssw/sw) for rwy 24 at time of the arrival ..using wundermap/wunderground 17:38 local time Mar 31 CYSN.
Word is only got slow on one after gear down late in approach, then apparently lost altitude more rapidly after that. Intentionally turns it away from the elevated approach-lights ... just clearing the perimeter fence to a fast stop on other side in rain-softened turf.
Wx-hist checks shows strong component-increases in the area (up to 30mph ssw/sw) for rwy 24 at time of the arrival ..using wundermap/wunderground 17:38 local time Mar 31 CYSN.
Last edited by pdw on Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Oh yes! Those sneaky decreasing performance windshears...
Did you look at the high pressure moving North then East 4mins before the accident? I think the rotational inertia of the counterflow air cause a slight decrease in HEADWIND, with a slightly decreasing elevation terrain which led to a 4.7mph decrease in HEADWIND component 0.67 miles from threshold. There was also a 7.2 mph CROSSWIND component. Maybe the aileron downwind induced an aerodynamic stall of the wingtip?
Did you look at the high pressure moving North then East 4mins before the accident? I think the rotational inertia of the counterflow air cause a slight decrease in HEADWIND, with a slightly decreasing elevation terrain which led to a 4.7mph decrease in HEADWIND component 0.67 miles from threshold. There was also a 7.2 mph CROSSWIND component. Maybe the aileron downwind induced an aerodynamic stall of the wingtip?
Going for the deck at corner
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:54 pm
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Did you look at the high pressure moving North then East 4mins before the accident? I think the rotational inertia of the counterflow air cause a slight decrease in HEADWIND, with a slightly decreasing elevation terrain which led to a 4.7mph decrease in HEADWIND component 0.67 miles from threshold. There was also a 7.2 mph CROSSWIND component. Maybe the aileron downwind induced an aerodynamic stall of the wingtip?
Ummmm,,,,,, NO !
Looks like pilot needs some more TRAINING OR time flippin burgers at McDonalds?
Ummmm,,,,,, NO !
Looks like pilot needs some more TRAINING OR time flippin burgers at McDonalds?
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:54 pm
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
pdw
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:51 am
Location: A mile final 24 CYSN
He might have even had a true point of view on accident!
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:51 am
Location: A mile final 24 CYSN
He might have even had a true point of view on accident!
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Exact details of this incident are unknown but.....very easy to get too slow/low in a situation like this yet so hard to get energy back once it happens, along with the increased associated directional control issues. If the runway is reasonably long for the aircraft, keep some extra energy.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
That's good encouragement for someone studying this setback to gain knowledge.
Here let's also not overlook if energy may have seemed managed WELL until the airframe abrupty glides out of the "30mph" (in a blink of an eye) into a mere 8kt component low down ... shown via a clearly sustained 12.9kph at MAS672 located under the approach approx at/near time-of wheels down. So on the flipside, in the event of high and too fast (too MUCH energy) and yes squandering the rwy length, you don't have a goaround option either. I'm seeing that 5nm ~upwind/ahead at the Huntington Heights' wx station at 17:35, a 10M higher elev than the threshold, matches CYSN's mid-airport surface reading after the touchdown, .. the 'out of the ordinary' 52km/hour SSW component/gusting .. works out to a substantial airspeed/lift loss that is not forseeable while also focusing on the concern of the moment .. in having lined up the runway where it looked right.
Here let's also not overlook if energy may have seemed managed WELL until the airframe abrupty glides out of the "30mph" (in a blink of an eye) into a mere 8kt component low down ... shown via a clearly sustained 12.9kph at MAS672 located under the approach approx at/near time-of wheels down. So on the flipside, in the event of high and too fast (too MUCH energy) and yes squandering the rwy length, you don't have a goaround option either. I'm seeing that 5nm ~upwind/ahead at the Huntington Heights' wx station at 17:35, a 10M higher elev than the threshold, matches CYSN's mid-airport surface reading after the touchdown, .. the 'out of the ordinary' 52km/hour SSW component/gusting .. works out to a substantial airspeed/lift loss that is not forseeable while also focusing on the concern of the moment .. in having lined up the runway where it looked right.
Last edited by pdw on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
I am learning something new all the time by reading these posts.
Crashing airplanes has nothing to do with getting behind the airplane it is caused by random wind changes and all pilots can get caught unaware and crash regardless of their flying skills.
I am sure happy I was never in the wrong place when one of these atmospheric events suddenly happen and even happier that I can thank pure luck for not crashing one during my career in aviation.
Crashing airplanes has nothing to do with getting behind the airplane it is caused by random wind changes and all pilots can get caught unaware and crash regardless of their flying skills.
I am sure happy I was never in the wrong place when one of these atmospheric events suddenly happen and even happier that I can thank pure luck for not crashing one during my career in aviation.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
looks like the prop on the far side is feathered.....in that pic.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Last edited by pdw on Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
C.W.E. ... they whipped up the strongest of the month right at the time of arrival, moving fast across the nearby higher terrain (immediately South of the airport the Niagara Escarpment is 300ft higher) which I found on occasion sheds a significant extra measure of airspeed/lift when descending thru 500agl into the calmer air down low (MAS672 wx-hist); it can be an extra and abrupt subtraction of IAS, for example not necessarily counted-on while focusing to get in with one-engine-out approach/power. The flightaware graph is evidence it was going fairly well in this emergency up to the point of the last flightaware hit, 700msl (380agl) 79kts GS at lat/long coordinate "43.2201/-79.1210" ( looks like right over Town offices/ Meridian-Arena by Creek Rd Virgil) about 3 miles final. Was seen 100-150agl at less a mile final by the owner of the mechanic the shop across the street from my dad's farm ("mile final") ... right on runway centerline about 2 mi southwest of last radar. He (Richard) notes " this wasn't normal and somewhat surreal (not right) to see one like that at treetop level with clearly the one propeller standing perfectly still with the other still going (spinning away) with the plane flying so very slow". He was just leaving for town on an errand and heard sirens, so then could also watch it further while driving southbound on concession 7 toward the intersection of 55 highway,.. where his view could follow the plane west toward the airport, appearing to have made it.
Last edited by pdw on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:39 am, edited 21 times in total.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:01 am
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
PDW:
That post where you show us a picture of the crippled plane, is the only one I could ever comprehend!!!!
And for that we all thank you!!!
That post where you show us a picture of the crippled plane, is the only one I could ever comprehend!!!!
And for that we all thank you!!!
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
I feel that it will probably be helpful and educational for other pilots to eventually be informed in full what it was that originally forced the decision for the shut down procedure out over Lake Ontario at 8000ft, and also what it was like experiencing such a close call on final, as it appears to have been (after the long straight-in approach) nearly half an hour after the root cause of the incident.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Don't know the weather that day but certainly, if good and with that nice long runway....one should make sure not to get slow. Just keep some extra speed and start adding power on the good engine earlier than normal to stop a decreasing speed trend. Once low and slow, adding power seems to almost be worse than not as directional control becomes very difficult. This is especially the case if the prop can't be feathered.pdw wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:18 am I feel that it will probably be helpful and educational for other pilots to eventually be informed in full what it was that originally forced the decision for the shut down procedure out over Lake Ontario at 8000ft, and also what it was like experiencing such a close call, as it appears to have been (after the long straight-in approach) nearly half an hour after the root cause of the incident.
Re: Aircraft down, CYSN
Some might find it interesting to have a look at flightaware's path for CGJKL, 5pm Mar31:
There are four actual level-offs, the first after the short divet drop from 8000ft, which I'm seeing as the point of shutdown. Then recovers up 200' back to 8000' while maintaining at slightly slowing speed, eventually descending to 3000 and level for a few minutes followed by 2000 for one minute; finally the last 2miles where the altitude is expiring. It does looks like there was opportunity to become more familiar with the behaviors on one engine in that way.
There are four actual level-offs, the first after the short divet drop from 8000ft, which I'm seeing as the point of shutdown. Then recovers up 200' back to 8000' while maintaining at slightly slowing speed, eventually descending to 3000 and level for a few minutes followed by 2000 for one minute; finally the last 2miles where the altitude is expiring. It does looks like there was opportunity to become more familiar with the behaviors on one engine in that way.