K country crash

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Turbolag
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:04 pm

K country crash

Post by Turbolag » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:44 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4770520

Any ideas of the aircraft type or owner. “Twin” was mentioned
---------- ADS -----------
  

FlySigi
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:01 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by FlySigi » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:41 pm

I hope it wasn't those guys. I talked to them here in Penticton last Saturday after they parked the Navajo for the night 🙁

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFNCI
---------- ADS -----------
  

anofly
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:46 am

Re: K country crash

Post by anofly » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:58 pm

navajo's are front and center in the advertising for the company, that does not mean at all that it has to be a navajo... but they seem to advertise having 2 of them and have no other aircraft in the promotional stuff...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Roadrunnersmother
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 1:17 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by Roadrunnersmother » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:00 pm

FlySigi wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:41 pm
I hope it wasn't those guys. I talked to them here in Penticton last Saturday after they parked the Navajo for the night 🙁

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFNCI
Yes sources are saying it was.
---------- ADS -----------
  

anofly
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:46 am

Re: K country crash

Post by anofly » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:29 pm

looks like a possible survey run, then a run to calgary? flightaware....
respectfully, and condolences...
fly safe folks...
---------- ADS -----------
  

FlySigi
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:01 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by FlySigi » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:38 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:00 pm
FlySigi wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:41 pm
I hope it wasn't those guys. I talked to them here in Penticton last Saturday after they parked the Navajo for the night 🙁

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFNCI
Yes sources are saying it was.
That sucks. They did surveys out of Penticton, went back to Calgary today and supposed to come back to Penticton in a few days to continue with the surveys ☹️
---------- ADS -----------
  

YYC650
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by YYC650 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:06 pm

The last return on Flightradar24 shows 13,100 ft, vertical speed -8,500 ft/min.

My condolences to the friends and families.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: K country crash

Post by Diadem » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:46 pm

YYC650 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:06 pm
The last return on Flightradar24 shows 13,100 ft, vertical speed -8,500 ft/min.
And ground speed 16 knots. There were a lot of speed and altitude fluctuations over the last five or so minutes. There were also a lot of nasty storms building over the Rockies at that time.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Posthumane
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 6:16 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by Posthumane » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:36 am

I knew the pilot of this aircraft. He was just at the beginning of his career, and will be missed by many. RIP
---------- ADS -----------
  
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -George Bernard Shaw

cncpc
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1348
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:17 am

Re: K country crash

Post by cncpc » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:12 am

Posthumane wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:36 am
I knew the pilot of this aircraft. He was just at the beginning of his career, and will be missed by many. RIP
Now is not the time, but a discussion on the risks of being in the back seat of a survey aircraft needs to be had.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: K country crash

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:35 am

Diadem wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:46 pm
There were also a lot of nasty storms building over the Rockies at that time.
Not where they were:

Image

Only one small storm 20nm away. Certainly there was convective activity, but enough to bring down a Navajo when there was nothing at all on the weather radar?
---------- ADS -----------
  

cncpc
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1348
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:17 am

Re: K country crash

Post by cncpc » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:09 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:35 am
Diadem wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:46 pm
There were also a lot of nasty storms building over the Rockies at that time.
Not where they were:

Image

Only one small storm 20nm away. Certainly there was convective activity, but enough to bring down a Navajo when there was nothing at all on the weather radar?
What were the winds aloft, Cpn?

Maybe some standing wave.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: K country crash

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:33 pm

cncpc wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:09 pm

What were the winds aloft, Cpn?

Maybe some standing wave.
I don't know what the winds were, and it's certainly a possibility that there was some kind of mountain wave. The GFA is showing some upper level troughs moving through. I was just pointing out that they didn't plough through a thunderstorm.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: K country crash

Post by Diadem » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:30 pm

Disregard.
---------- ADS -----------
  

cncpc
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1348
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:17 am

Re: K country crash

Post by cncpc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:03 pm

Posthumane wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:36 am
I knew the pilot of this aircraft. He was just at the beginning of his career, and will be missed by many. RIP
What was his experience level?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.

Posthumane
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 6:16 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by Posthumane » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:53 pm

cncpc wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:03 pm
Posthumane wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:36 am
I knew the pilot of this aircraft. He was just at the beginning of his career, and will be missed by many. RIP
What was his experience level?
My apologies, I made a mistake. My pilot friend was killed in a plane crash in BC the same day. I heard about this plane going down and shortly after heard about his death, but it was a different flight in which he was a passenger. Still a tragedy, but please disregard my reference to the pilot of this particular flight.
---------- ADS -----------
  
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -George Bernard Shaw

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by pelmet » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:25 pm

C-FNCI, a Piper PA-31 Navajo aircraft operated by Aries Aviation Services, was conducting an IFR flight from Penticton, BC to Calgary/Springbank, AB (CYBW) with one pilot and one survey technician on board. At 1935 MDT while descending through 14 000 feet ASL, approximately 37 nm Southwest of CYBW, the pilot indicated that there was a problem. There were no further transmissions received. The aircraft impacted terrain in the approximate area of Rae’s Glacier in Kananaskis Country. Both occupants were fatally injured.
---------- ADS -----------
  

JL
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:56 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: K country crash

Post by JL » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:46 pm

---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by pelmet » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:05 am

Kind of a strange accident. Any theories on why the engine lost power at that moment?

What about the oxygen system, it sounds very inconvenient and I didn't quite understand how it works.
---------- ADS -----------
  

jakeandelwood
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by jakeandelwood » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm

I'm a little behind but how did the investigators know all the engine parameters leading up to the accident? Did it have one of those data recording engine monitors? I'll bet he wished he had another pilot in the cockpit with him to help out.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Squaretail
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by Squaretail » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:00 pm

jakeandelwood wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm
I'm a little behind but how did the investigators know all the engine parameters leading up to the accident? Did it have one of those data recording engine monitors? I'll bet he wished he had another pilot in the cockpit with him to help out.
The report states the aircraft was equipped with a JPI edm, as well as the video recording system which was partly able to see the engine instruments.

The o2 system is simply a tank with a mask. Put mask on, open valve. By the way I read the report I took it to read that he wasn’t wearing the mask the entirety of the time. It does state that the mask type he was using did not have a integral mike.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Good people drink beer. - Hunter S. Thompson

jakeandelwood
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by jakeandelwood » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:20 pm

I see, that info from the engine monitor must be gold to the investigators
---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by pelmet » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:04 pm

The bottom line is a mishandling of an engine power loss. The reason for the power loss is unknown. Hypoxia may have been at least partly responsible for the mishandling.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Roar
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:14 pm

Re: K country crash

Post by Roar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:30 pm

To me the Manifold Pressure trace looks a lot like an out of rig throttle quadrant, as he was reducing MP he got to a point around 24” they were both matched up nicely then as he reduced more the right starts to reduce quicker than the left, at about 18” gets them matched up again for a second then for some reason adds power to the left to 22” and reduces the right to 16” stays stabilized for 50 seconds or so then some increases in the left until cloud break, both throttles get chopped to idle (are matched up from 12” and below, power comes back up on both engines rapidly and matched to the end of recording at 16”. This seems to me to show a split throttle lever from 24”-12” on power reduction maybe that coupled with hypoxia confused him, he fixated on that problem and lost SA.
Just my initial thoughts reading that report.
---------- ADS -----------
  
"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."

Capt. Underpants
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:04 am

Re: K country crash

Post by Capt. Underpants » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:37 pm

To me the issues with engine power are nothing more than a symptom of the hypoxia. His cognitive ability was impaired to the point he couldn’t see what was happening.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”