Air Canada lands again

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pelmet
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Air Canada lands again

Post by pelmet »

Maybe they have a no-fault landing policy......

"Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order

Canadian investigators have disclosed that an Air Canada Airbus A321 proceeded to land at Toronto despite being instructed to execute a go-around.
The aircraft had been operating flight AC150 from Calgary on 18 August, states the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.

It had been approaching runway 06L, on short final, when air traffic control ordered it to conduct a go-around owing to a preceding aircraft not having vacated the runway.

“The go-around transmission was not acknowledged by the flight crew of [the A321] and the aircraft proceeded with the landing,” says the safety board.

It landed and exited the runway without further incident, with no injuries among the 196 occupants.

At the time of the incident, given as 21:50, the approach would have been conducted in darkness."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... er-451527/
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Rooster69
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Rooster69 »

Oh brother! Not again.
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the cool one
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by the cool one »

FYI I am a rare poster on AvCanada but drop by for pleasure reading quite frequently. I enjoy, most of all, the professional information and exchanges between knowledgeable professional pilots and others.

IMO this type of sensationalistic postings by pelmet is counter productive to the health and survival of this forum.

The fact is that the ultimate decision to land (or not) is the aircraft commander. Period! If in his/her opinion this was the safer course of action (and it turned out no one got hurt so it was) then this commander earned his salt.

Clearly pelmet is not a professional pilot or he would know about decision making process. Even I know a little about that! lol:

Lets wait for the upcoming professional investigative report and learn the facts rather than spout unadulterated, sensationilized and misinformed opinions of some newspaper writer. And present the above with a sprinkle of sarcasm to boot.

I am not related in any way, shape or form to this incident. Just a forum reader tired of half baked opinion and creative, sensationalistic writing by a few posters........just for the heck of it. IMO this is a cheap shot to a professional by an amateur wannabee. Wrong? Possibly but....its my opinion.

Not very nice Mr pelmet, not very nice.

Peace out
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by AuxBatOn »

Well, we know what ATC instructed. We don’t have what was received and comprehended in the cockpit. The three can sometimes be very different.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by rookiepilot »

the cool one wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:32 am FYI I am a rare poster on AvCanada but drop by for pleasure reading quite frequently. I enjoy, most of all, the professional information and exchanges between knowledgeable professional pilots and others.

IMO this type of sensationalistic postings by pelmet is counter productive to the health and survival of this forum.

The fact is that the ultimate decision to land (or not) is the aircraft commander. Period! If in his/her opinion this was the safer course of action (and it turned out no one got hurt so it was) then this commander earned his salt.

Clearly pelmet is not a professional pilot or he would know about decision making process. Even I know a little about that! lol:

Lets wait for the upcoming professional investigative report and learn the facts rather than spout unadulterated, sensationilized and misinformed opinions of some newspaper writer. And present the above with a sprinkle of sarcasm to boot.

I am not related in any way, shape or form to this incident. Just a forum reader tired of half baked opinion and creative, sensationalistic writing by a few posters........just for the heck of it. IMO this is a cheap shot to a professional by an amateur wannabee. Wrong? Possibly but....its my opinion.

Not very nice Mr pelmet, not very nice.

Peace out
My $0.02 on this. Fair enough comment from this amateur GA pilot.

Just curious if the above rules apply to GA incidents as well?
Cause from some time on this board, I see multiple posters get their frillies in a knot over incident postings, but strangely only, mainly regarding big Red.
But on GA stuff?
It's fire away. Speculation abounds. Talk to reporters even and speculate after a fatal accident. It's all good, right?

It's the hypocrisy I find interesting.
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wrightflyer
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by wrightflyer »

Edit

CADORS = 2018O2272

"An Air Canada Airbus A321-211 (ACA150) from Calgary Int'l, AB (CYYC) to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Int'l, ON (CYYZ) on short final to Runway 06L was instructed to go around due to previous arrival not expected to be off active runway. ACA150 did not acknowledge instruction and landed. The pilot claimed to hear the aircraft call sign and nothing else."
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170 to xray
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by 170 to xray »

The Cool One, I truly hope you are trolling. If not, I find your ignorance somewhat unbelievable.

Pelmet posted an incident with essentially no comment. You on the other hand, not so much.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Alcoholism »

the cool one wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:32 am FYI I am a rare poster on AvCanada but drop by for pleasure reading quite frequently. I enjoy, most of all, the professional information and exchanges between knowledgeable professional pilots and others.

IMO this type of sensationalistic postings by pelmet is counter productive to the health and survival of this forum.

The fact is that the ultimate decision to land (or not) is the aircraft commander. Period! If in his/her opinion this was the safer course of action (and it turned out no one got hurt so it was) then this commander earned his salt.

Clearly pelmet is not a professional pilot or he would know about decision making process. Even I know a little about that! lol:

Lets wait for the upcoming professional investigative report and learn the facts rather than spout unadulterated, sensationilized and misinformed opinions of some newspaper writer. And present the above with a sprinkle of sarcasm to boot.

I am not related in any way, shape or form to this incident. Just a forum reader tired of half baked opinion and creative, sensationalistic writing by a few posters........just for the heck of it. IMO this is a cheap shot to a professional by an amateur wannabee. Wrong? Possibly but....its my opinion.

Not very nice Mr pelmet, not very nice.

Peace out
Maybe you should stick to the flight training sub forum until you learn that when ATC gives you an instruction it's for a good damn reason. They wouldn't tell a passenger jet to go around for $hits and giggles. It's for safety, of which you clearly don't understand. Pilots don't have the big picture, and it sounds from you we should all cowboy it around the sky NORDO. It may ultimately rest with the captain to land, but holy $hit if there was an accident who the F do you think they are going to hang? There won't be a investigation report because ...
An Air Canada Airbus A321-200, registration C-GITU performing flight AC-150 from Calgary,AB to Toronto,ON (Canada) with 196 people on board, was on short final to Toronto's runway 06L, when the preceeding arrival could not vacate the runway in time. Tower instructed AC-150 to go around, the crew however did not acknowledge the call and continued for landing. The aircraft rolled out and vacated the runway without further incident.

Canada's TSB rated the occurrence an incident reportable involving the risk of a collision, however, did not open an investigation.
.... it happens so often at Air Clown-tada.
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Last edited by Alcoholism on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rockie
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Rockie »

170 to xray wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:57 am The Cool One, I truly hope you are trolling. If not, I find your ignorance somewhat unbelievable.

Pelmet posted an incident with essentially no comment. You on the other hand, not so much.
Maybe you missed the first sentence in Pelmet's post. Here it is..
pelmet wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:11 pm Maybe they have a no-fault landing policy......
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Victory
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Victory »

There's so much talking and callouts required by the SOPs that no one is listening to ATC on final.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by altiplano »

That's a high workload phase of flight with multiple SOP calls going on... it's possible for the aircraft to be make calls outs, the pilots making call outs, and a transmission gets missed. That happens every day.

How many times did the controller call them? Did they repeat the call to go around? Was it clearly stated?

I guess we'll find out.
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Sharklasers »

deleted
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Last edited by Sharklasers on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oldguystrtn2fly
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Oldguystrtn2fly »

I have a question about this, I am not a professional Pilot and rarely fly in controlled space, but I clearly remember with an instructor the first time landing under ATC , being lined up on final and asking my instructor if we had already been cleared to land. There was an aircraft in front landing , and he said they won’t clear us until he vacates the runway. He did xi the runway and we were cleared to land on short final, half mile out maybe. So how does ATC do it with airliners? It seems odd to give out a stack of clearances and then rely on aircraft to “hear” a instruction to go around. Can anyone explain the process?
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Rockie
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Rockie »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:22 am I have a question about this, I am not a professional Pilot and rarely fly in controlled space, but I clearly remember with an instructor the first time landing under ATC , being lined up on final and asking my instructor if we had already been cleared to land. There was an aircraft in front landing , and he said they won’t clear us until he vacates the runway. He did xi the runway and we were cleared to land on short final, half mile out maybe. So how does ATC do it with airliners? It seems odd to give out a stack of clearances and then rely on aircraft to “hear” a instruction to go around. Can anyone explain the process?
It is done at very busy airports at times to avoid having to issue a clearance to an airplane on very short final. ATC issues the clearance to land, but it is ultimately up to the crew to ensure the runway is clear before actually doing so. A clearance to land is not an instruction to land, it is just permission.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

There's so much talking and callouts required by the SOPs that no one is listening to ATC on final.
Add to that the Notam fiasco and add to that the propensity for pilots to chit-chat about nothing in important phases of flight and here is what yall get !
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by HansDietrich »

There are many factors here. Doing a go-around so close to the ground (low energy) is not exactly the safest of things. We do practice it in the SIM, but when you're at "50 feet" and a Go Around is called, it's easy to miss, especially with the "plane" barking at you the "final countdown".

I'm sure a report will settle this. In the end, if we can learn something from it, I'm fine with it. Everyone makes mistakes, including seasoned AC pilots. I'm not defending them. There's nothing to defend until an official report comes out.
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by cncpc »

the cool one wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:32 am FYI I am a rare poster on AvCanada but drop by for pleasure reading quite frequently. I enjoy, most of all, the professional information and exchanges between knowledgeable professional pilots and others.

IMO this type of sensationalistic postings by pelmet is counter productive to the health and survival of this forum.

The fact is that the ultimate decision to land (or not) is the aircraft commander. Period! If in his/her opinion this was the safer course of action (and it turned out no one got hurt so it was) then this commander earned his salt.

Clearly pelmet is not a professional pilot or he would know about decision making process. Even I know a little about that! lol:

Lets wait for the upcoming professional investigative report and learn the facts rather than spout unadulterated, sensationilized and misinformed opinions of some newspaper writer. And present the above with a sprinkle of sarcasm to boot.

I am not related in any way, shape or form to this incident. Just a forum reader tired of half baked opinion and creative, sensationalistic writing by a few posters........just for the heck of it. IMO this is a cheap shot to a professional by an amateur wannabee. Wrong? Possibly but....its my opinion.

Not very nice Mr pelmet, not very nice.

Peace out
You're in the wrong pub. Failure to comply with a go around resulting in a CADOR will always be discussed here.
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by Victory »

aeroncasuperchief wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:11 am
There's so much talking and callouts required by the SOPs that no one is listening to ATC on final.
Add to that the Notam fiasco and add to that the propensity for pilots to chit-chat about nothing in important phases of flight and here is what yall get !
Trust me there is little time for chit-chat from the time you take your seat to top of climb, and then from before top of descent until you get up to leave. I couldn't believe it when I first saw their SOPs. You literally do not shut up the entire time.
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by fish4life »

Im genuinely curious so why is there so much talking in the last 500' then on the bus?
Sometimes less is better is it not?
Is this a result of adding a new SOP every time something happened and the corrective action was to add more words?
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Re: Air Canada lands again

Post by 98 Corolla »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:22 am So how does ATC do it with airliners?
You are often given a clearance to land with traffic ahead of you on final or still on the runway.
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