Recent prop safety minor stories
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Recent prop safety minor stories
A ground crewman, who is a licensed pilot moved the prop about a quarter turn in the forward direction to the horizontal position recently with me standing in front of the engine. I mentioned to him the reason why that might not be a good idea. The engine had not been run yet during the day and it was in a hangar. It was the second time in a month that I had seen someone do that sort of thing.
I thought of a few other encounters in just the last couple of months that were a bit interesting. One instructor on a Cherokee didn't like that I moved the prop backward a bit so I could look into the engine intake. I mentioned that it is impossible for there to be a spark generated when moving the prop backwards. Still, at least he was aware to the dangers.
Another instructor really didn't like that I went into the arc of the propeller at all, which I had done once again on the walkaround to look in the engine intake. I admit that there is a logic to this but the engine was cold and no one was near the cockpit where there could be a remote possibility of an accidental engagement of the starter. He said he became particularly paranoid a few years ago when he was trying to handprop an aircraft and after multiple attempts gave up but did one last unconventional sort of swing of the prop in anger and the engine started inches from his face. Nothing like a close shave to change ones view on things.
And then there is the email that I received from one flight school reminding pilots not to turn off the mags prior to the engine stopping. The memo states that the resulting unburned fuel/air mixture in the cylinders creates a hazard to ground personnel moving the prop to the horizontal position to install the towbar if the mag is not grounded. It would seem that they might feel like things will be ok if the mixture was used to shut down the engine.
I thought of a few other encounters in just the last couple of months that were a bit interesting. One instructor on a Cherokee didn't like that I moved the prop backward a bit so I could look into the engine intake. I mentioned that it is impossible for there to be a spark generated when moving the prop backwards. Still, at least he was aware to the dangers.
Another instructor really didn't like that I went into the arc of the propeller at all, which I had done once again on the walkaround to look in the engine intake. I admit that there is a logic to this but the engine was cold and no one was near the cockpit where there could be a remote possibility of an accidental engagement of the starter. He said he became particularly paranoid a few years ago when he was trying to handprop an aircraft and after multiple attempts gave up but did one last unconventional sort of swing of the prop in anger and the engine started inches from his face. Nothing like a close shave to change ones view on things.
And then there is the email that I received from one flight school reminding pilots not to turn off the mags prior to the engine stopping. The memo states that the resulting unburned fuel/air mixture in the cylinders creates a hazard to ground personnel moving the prop to the horizontal position to install the towbar if the mag is not grounded. It would seem that they might feel like things will be ok if the mixture was used to shut down the engine.
Last edited by pelmet on Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
I should update the original post. I have literally turned props in the forward direction hundreds of times in the past year alone(no exaggeration). But it was all on Rotax engines for burping the engine and the capacitance discharge ignition modules on the Rotax will not fire unless you really pull the prop through quickly.
The previous post was about the typical Inductive Discharge Ignition system used on the engines that we are more familiar with.
The previous post was about the typical Inductive Discharge Ignition system used on the engines that we are more familiar with.
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Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
In the "good ole days" a real man would stand in front of the prop and turn it with or without a stranger at the controls regardless of the 1/2 inch of ice on the tarmac!
In my earlier years, I would be "the man" and do likewise ( From J-3 to C-185 and my own non-electrics A/C ) NOW, I am a chicken and always hand prop the A/C from behind, holding onto the A/C structure,,,, much safer that way!
In my earlier years, I would be "the man" and do likewise ( From J-3 to C-185 and my own non-electrics A/C ) NOW, I am a chicken and always hand prop the A/C from behind, holding onto the A/C structure,,,, much safer that way!
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Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Speaking of foolish, I once installed the cowling on a quickie A/C ,,, with the engine running ! ( long time ago,,, )
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
i think props are like guns (if they are on an aircraft) treat them like they might go off . At least that way if they ever surprise you , they wont hit you.I do however walk in the arc if noone is at controls.
so treat them like guns if you are touching them, or anyone else is touching them or sitting at the controls.
so treat them like guns if you are touching them, or anyone else is touching them or sitting at the controls.
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Good point. I went to Houston and had an Uzi at the firing range. Accidentally fired a shot when I didn't intend to. The gun was pointing in the proper direction fortunately. Be paranoid when paranoia is useful.anofly wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:06 am i think props are like guns (if they are on an aircraft) treat them like they might go off . At least that way if they ever surprise you , they wont hit you.I do however walk in the arc if noone is at controls.
so treat them like guns if you are touching them, or anyone else is touching them or sitting at the controls.
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Recently, another instructor recently went out to an aircraft that had been reported as making a funny noise when the prop was turned. He went straight to the prop and started rotating it in the direction of operation with arms pretty much around the whole thing. The starter was rubbing against prop gearing and making the noise. It all happened very quickly and unexpectedly. I heard the impulse coupling click and quickly stood clear and confirmed that all switches/levers in the cockpit were in the safest position.
Here is what can happen with the keys in your pocket and all switches in the proper place....
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/07/p ... essna.html
Be paranoid
Here is what can happen with the keys in your pocket and all switches in the proper place....
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/07/p ... essna.html
Be paranoid
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Four times in the last three months, I have seen people turn props in the direction of rotation just out of the blue with almost no notice or time to react. Two on cold engines to make room for a wingtip while maneuvering in a hangar. The other two were on warm engines(of aircraft I just flew) by instructors for towbar attachment, including the one today that was by a CFI. The other instructor did it just as I was walking in front of the aircraft. No brakes applied, no chocks installed. It amazes me how many people do this.
Just turn the prop backwards a bit(except on radials).
Just turn the prop backwards a bit(except on radials).
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Was pumping some water out of a float the other day when I saw another floatplane pilot walk along the wire between the front floats while holding onto the prop(personally, I like grab a part of the air intake area when I walk the wire). Then while standing on the left float and appearing to have his upper torso well into the prop arc between a couple of blades, he re-positions the three-bladed prop in the direction of rotation to what appears to be a more appropriate starting position for him.
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
A Cirrus guy in a hangar the other day did it as well during his pre-flight. And there was no need to do so.
This video on hand-propping is pretty good.....until the guy does at 7:45 exactly what I say you shouldn't do.
https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/bad-fo ... +6%2C+2021
Perhaps he had his big chocks in, the tail tied, and had checked for throttle closed/mixture idle cutoff.
Personal opinion: It is my belief that a little paranoia is good for a pilot. When it comes to prop safety, a lot of paranoia is good.
This video on hand-propping is pretty good.....until the guy does at 7:45 exactly what I say you shouldn't do.
https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/bad-fo ... +6%2C+2021
Perhaps he had his big chocks in, the tail tied, and had checked for throttle closed/mixture idle cutoff.
Personal opinion: It is my belief that a little paranoia is good for a pilot. When it comes to prop safety, a lot of paranoia is good.
Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
I used to be very paranoid about propellers.
But thinking back and realizing how hard some of those engines are to start when you try, makes me wonder if we aren't too afraid of them sometimes.
I've never had an engine fire on the first blade. A thought experiment: if you run up to a randomly parked airplane on the ramp, and you yanked on its prop, likely nothing would happen. How many times would you have to try this before one would inadvertently burp. A hundred? Thousand? Millions?
But thinking back and realizing how hard some of those engines are to start when you try, makes me wonder if we aren't too afraid of them sometimes.
I've never had an engine fire on the first blade. A thought experiment: if you run up to a randomly parked airplane on the ramp, and you yanked on its prop, likely nothing would happen. How many times would you have to try this before one would inadvertently burp. A hundred? Thousand? Millions?
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
This isn’t recent. About 50 years ago I landed with Cessna 180 CF-IRQ at Hartley Bay on the Inside Passage south of Prince Rupert BC. I picked up 3 nice local ladies and discovered that the battery was dead before casting off. Thankfully someone on the dock held onto the strut while I tried to start.
I conducted a quick course with the lady sitting in the right seat about handling the magneto switch. Mags on, mags off, etc. Then I got out onto the right float while hand proping from behind. I don’t have a long reach so it was a bit of a challenge. I asked the lady to make sure the mag switch was off. Then I pulled through the prop to the compression stroke. I asked her to go to mags on and pulled the prop down. No luck. We repeated the process several times. I was tired out riding in the swell and tied to the dock. I looked in the cockpit and realized we were out of sync. Every time I asked for mags off she turned them on. And ever time I asked for mags on she turned them off. We got that straightened out and it started on the first pull. Then I crawled across on the front spreader bar under the airplane, got in the left seat and taxied away.
Fun times and seriously good memories.
AP
I conducted a quick course with the lady sitting in the right seat about handling the magneto switch. Mags on, mags off, etc. Then I got out onto the right float while hand proping from behind. I don’t have a long reach so it was a bit of a challenge. I asked the lady to make sure the mag switch was off. Then I pulled through the prop to the compression stroke. I asked her to go to mags on and pulled the prop down. No luck. We repeated the process several times. I was tired out riding in the swell and tied to the dock. I looked in the cockpit and realized we were out of sync. Every time I asked for mags off she turned them on. And ever time I asked for mags on she turned them off. We got that straightened out and it started on the first pull. Then I crawled across on the front spreader bar under the airplane, got in the left seat and taxied away.
Fun times and seriously good memories.
AP
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Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Would those ladies have been the nursing staff??
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Re: Recent prop safety minor stories
Nope. Genuine original local ladies.
AP