I was thinking they were lining up for the west bound runway, in which case they crashed 20 miles from the IAF.
But I was wrong since I couldn't find Wx and nobody volunteered it. Assuming runway 10 had favourable wind, and being direct goxam they would still have been at cruise altitude.
Icamefromspace wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:47 pm
Why would they descend down to 2400' 25nm back, let alone 5 miles before that? That's way below any sort of reasonable profile.
The only real reason to descend early would be if they thought they could get in visually. Odds are these boys flew here often, and knew the local terrain.
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Last edited by co-joe on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Co-Joe: but realistically the 100 nm safe is higher because of the 11 800 AMA for rocks 180 nm west of there,
That's why I will wait for the trained people with the actual information to give me the cause...maybe a review of a CAP GEN is in order.
Yeah... I usually go the other way. Like being within 100 NM of Sandspit gets you to 8500 feet going into Prince Rupert rather than the 11,100 that’s on the chart. As long as you’re on the sector or area or airway etc and you’ve corrected temps, you’re safe.
Co-Joe: but realistically the 100 nm safe is higher because of the 11 800 AMA for rocks 180 nm west of there,
That's why I will wait for the trained people with the actual information to give me the cause...maybe a review of a CAP GEN is in order.
The “cause” is simple. Descended below a published altitude IMC. Only reason for such a descent is VMC conditions. Then of course, there would not have been an accident.
The only question is. Why?
Illya
If the plane was found at the Northwest end of Marian Lake, as reported on CBC, there is a ridge there, with the highest point on the VNC shown as 971', which is about 400 feet higher than the water. You can't tell by looking at the map but it looks like an escarpment, which one would cross close to a right angle on the way to Wha'ti.
I'm not going to speculate about what they were doing down there, but I have flown that route in MVFR conditions on floats, and the ridge is something to look out for.
Yes and the reports can be vague enough to make it difficult to really understand why these accidents happen, they hope enough pilots are ignorant of the subject for their report to look legitimate.
Does anyone here know if that flight filed an IFR flight plan?
I had the pleasure of knowing both of the pilots. Both extrodinary men, amazing and SAFE pilots. I know Will would have never descended below a minimum altitude unless he was in VMC so I’m confident that it would not have been CFIT. Neither of the guys were cowboys. Its tough right now not knowing what exactly happened to the plane and a lot of people are scratching their heads as to how this happened but for now all we can do is wait for the TSB to do their thing. In the mean time if you guys feel like helping swing by gofundme and help support their families. https://www.gofundme.com/memorial-for-zach-mckillop https://ca.gofundme.com/in-memory-of-will-hayworth
Something like this can be easily caused by an erroneous altimeter setting. A 310 hit the ground near Cat Lake several years ago for just this reason. Every morning after I spark up the beast, I set set field elevation before I even "check in" for the numbers with FSS. Sounds pretty basic, but pilots have been known to miss an even 1000 foot error. Not saying this happened......probably didn't.....but it would certainly do it.
Take it for what it's worth, but I always do this, and there's a big probability I've been doing this longer than you.
Illya
They may have been VFR when they descended but anyone that's been over a frozen lake in the winter while it's snowing knows it can be VFR and suddenly you don't even know which way is up. Hitting a 400 foot ridge on the other side of a lake during potential whiteout conditions definitely suggests CFIT as the cause.
The problem is, it isn’t really on profile with a normal decent, they crashed outside of the 25 mile safe, and visibility was a mile and ceiling was 1600 feet. They were right on approach ban—not exactly the conditions any informed crew goes looking to find an early sucker hole and dive and drive.
iflyforpie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:32 pm
I always set field elevation as well.
The problem is, it isn’t really on profile with a normal decent, they crashed outside of the 25 mile safe, and visibility was a mile and ceiling was 1600 feet. They were right on approach ban—not exactly the conditions any informed crew goes looking to find an early sucker hole and dive and drive.
I always look at these things and try to figure out some causes. As in, let's come up with ideas so the next guy won't do it. As in, why were they low enough to hit something over 25 miles out? Not a great idea to be anywhere near that low, that far back on a VMC day. The guys knew the neighbourhood. That's why I'm thinking altimeter setting. Was there a big pressure change since the last time the plane flew?
Illya
Does anyone here know if that flight filed an IFR flight plan?
They may have had an IFR clearance out of YZF controlled airspace. However where they were found and the Whati (lac La Martre) is uncontrolled airspace below 18000 ft.
I do not know present practice but in the past one would likely operate on a flight note and get a IFR clearance out of YZF. Once clear of controlled airspace ATC would terminate the IFR and you would continue on the note.
As the approach to Whati is wholly in uncontrolled airspace no clearance is required.
They may have had an IFR clearance out of YZF controlled airspace. However where they were found and the Wha Ti (lac La Martre) is uncontrolled airspace below 18000 ft.
I do not know present practice but in the past one would likely operate on a flight note and get a IFR clearance out of YZF. Once clear of controlled airspace ATC would terminate the IFR and you would continue on the note.
As the approach to Wha Ti is wholly in uncontrolled airspace no clearance is required.
Yes it has been like that for decades and it leaves how you do it to the pilots based on what they find en- route.
