United. They gave him his wings and left his seat empty in the class.
Atlas Air 767
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Re: Atlas Air 767
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Re: Atlas Air 767
Take it for what it's worth...
"Got this info from my airlines unofficial forum. Unofficial of course .
The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didnt engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I wont get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I wont get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking."
"Got this info from my airlines unofficial forum. Unofficial of course .
The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didnt engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I wont get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I wont get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking."
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Same being reported by wall street journal, business Insider etc. Just not in quite that graphic detail.
Re: Atlas Air 767
How does one accidentally hit the toga buttons going for flaps?telex wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:52 am Take it for what it's worth...
"Got this info from my airlines unofficial forum. Unofficial of course .
The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didnt engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I wont get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I wont get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking."
Re: Atlas Air 767
The switches do happen to be on the backside of the throttle levers on the 767:
"Then from 1000 ft AGL until the final capture altitude, the A/C accelerates backwards up along the altitude profile with idle thrust"
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Re: Atlas Air 767
Doesn't the 767 have a "Go Around" annunciation or something similar on the PFD?
Re: Atlas Air 767
That seems like an awkward set up for the toga switch...
Re: Atlas Air 767
GA will become active in pitch and roll. Annunciated on the Flight Mode Annunciator.ReserveTank wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:34 am Doesn't the 767 have a "Go Around" annunciation or something similar on the PFD?
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
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Re: Atlas Air 767
It was probably in the heat of the moment for them, but always, always, always check the FMA is you want to know "what mama's doing." Of course it's 20/20 now.telex wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 amGA will become active in pitch and roll. Annunciated on the Flight Mode Annunciator.ReserveTank wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:34 am Doesn't the 767 have a "Go Around" annunciation or something similar on the PFD?
Re: Atlas Air 767
Would 4G negative be possible to achieve, even instantaneously? A loaded 767 is a lot of mass to make change its velocity that quickly by diving, isn't it?
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Re: Atlas Air 767
There is a pretty long arm between the 767 cockpit - where I presume the reading was recorded - and its lateral axis. The longer the arm, the higher the linear acceleration for a given angular acceleration about an axis.
Re: Atlas Air 767
So, theoretical situation: Three g-meters, one in the cockpit, one on the spar and one in the tailcone, all reading simultaneously. At the inception of a sharp pushover and dive, there would be a high negative in the cockpit, a high positive in the tail and a moderate negative at the spar or lateral axis?Boreas wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:52 pmThere is a pretty long arm between the 767 cockpit - where I presume the reading was recorded - and its lateral axis. The longer the arm, the higher the linear acceleration for a given angular acceleration about an axis.
Re: Atlas Air 767
There's a plethora of articles out about disputes and safety concerns at Atlas/Amazon. Apparently people there were dreading something like this happening.
Of course it's taking a back seat to the Max thing, but may be just as relevant if not more so, being in our own backyard.
I haven't been able to find anything about the experience level of the crew, anyone know?
Of course it's taking a back seat to the Max thing, but may be just as relevant if not more so, being in our own backyard.
I haven't been able to find anything about the experience level of the crew, anyone know?
Re: Atlas Air 767
CA total 11 000 hours and 1250 on type.DanWEC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:05 pm There's a plethora of articles out about disputes and safety concerns at Atlas/Amazon. Apparently people there were dreading something like this happening.
Of course it's taking a back seat to the Max thing, but may be just as relevant if not more so, being in our own backyard.
I haven't been able to find anything about the experience level of the crew, anyone know?
FO total 5 000 hours and 520 on type.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
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Re: Atlas Air 767
Yes to 'high' negative in the cockpit and to 'high' positive in the tail. There wouldn't be a negative at the lateral axis at the inception of the push over - it would be close to 1g still.GyvAir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:52 pmSo, theoretical situation: Three g-meters, one in the cockpit, one on the spar and one in the tailcone, all reading simultaneously. At the inception of a sharp pushover and dive, there would be a high negative in the cockpit, a high positive in the tail and a moderate negative at the spar or lateral axis?
If you're in the tail you'd hit the floor and if you're in the cockpit you'd hit the ceiling... hard!
Re: Atlas Air 767
this is unlikely. the 767 has a cam type override which requires 25 pounds of force to disengage one column from the other. also the same thing at the tail.
if the FO was holding full forward, all it should take is 25lbs of force from the Captain to disengage the columns. then they both have control of one elevator. until the columns are brought to the same place again, then they lock back together.
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Re: Atlas Air 767
Works very well - location makes it quite easy to push one of the switches when needed. Fingers on top of the thrust levers and you would hit the TOGA switch with your thumb.
A vast improvement on the 737 switches which are very poorly located imho.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
Re: Atlas Air 767
Fair enough, just wondering how easy they are to accidentally bump vs a button on the side like you see in many.