Atlas Air 767

[goingnowherefast]

Management accidently hires crap candidates on ocassion. HR botches the reference check, candidate exaggerates on resume or in interview, etc. I haven't seen an abnormal number of any race hired.

[co-joe]

Looks like inadvertent TOGA activation and the FO thinking they were about to stall. He then pushed to a 40 degree nose down attitude. ...

Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767?

[jpilot77]

No it isn’t

[pelmet]

Management accidently hires crap candidates on ocassion. HR botches the reference check, candidate exaggerates on resume or in interview, etc. I haven't seen an abnormal number of any race hired.

Nice attempt at an excuse to try and brush this under the carpet but it is too important to do so....

"Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996 (PRIA)
PRIA requires that a hiring air carrier under 14 CFR parts 121 and 135, or a hiring air operator under 14 CFR part 125, request, receive, and evaluate certain information concerning a pilot/applicant’s training, experience, qualification, and safety background, before allowing that individual to begin service as a pilot with their company."

There was no botching the reference check. HR knew exactly the recorded training record of this person that they were hiring. I guarantee you there were other resumes in the pile for a widebody jet operation with 747's.

I know, I sound like a racist.

[Eric Janson]

Looks like inadvertent TOGA activation and the FO thinking they were about to stall. He then pushed to a 40 degree nose down attitude. ...

Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767?

It's not so much about the stall but about the brain interpreting acceleration as the aircraft pitching up.

A very good explanation here.

http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/av ... c-illusion

[stone69]

In response to co-joe...."Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767? " It's been a while, but the procedure in the 767 was to apply max thrust and lower the nose... smoothly to about five degrees above the horizon and level the wings. At higher altitudes the pitch would be less than five degrees and if done above thirty thousand, it required a slight nose down attitude to allow for acceleration... no more than a couple of degrees and nowhere near forty degrees....

[Inverted2]

Although tragic as this accident is, I know of a person who fits this F/O’s description and past training records to a “T” and is now flying boxes around as well.

I don’t know if you omit past employers your failures still show up through FAA or TC checks.

[Braun]

In response to co-joe...."Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767? " It's been a while, but the procedure in the 767 was to apply max thrust and lower the nose... smoothly to about five degrees above the horizon and level the wings. At higher altitudes the pitch would be less than five degrees and if done above thirty thousand, it required a slight nose down attitude to allow for acceleration... no more than a couple of degrees and nowhere near forty degrees....

Wow, that makes it even crazier. How can someone rated on B767 pitch 40 degrees nose down to recover from a stall if the recovery is as you stated.

[telex]

[yycflyguy]

That's interesting to see. AC SOP for stall recovery is AP/AT OFF, lower the nose to break the stall before increasing thrust. The logic was that with the massive under slung engines, increasing the thrust exacerbates the nose high pitch so they wanted to esure the wing was flying first. This technique is complicated at low altitudes without the recovery time of altitude.

[Eric Janson]

The aircraft didn't stall.

TOGA was selected and the resulting rapid acceleration was interpreted as a pitch-up by the PF.

He then pushed forward instinctively which increased acceleration even more which the PF interpreted as the nose still pitching up resulting in him pushing the nose down even more.

This accident has nothing to do with stall or stall recovery imho.

It's Somatogravic Illusion.