Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

[av8ts]

UK just halted MAX flights within it's airspace.

Link?

[Heliian]

UK just halted MAX flights within it's airspace.

Link?

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Boeing-737-MAX-Aircraft/

[rookiepilot]

Norwegian too. Both on my Twitter feed.

[ogopogo]

Susan Ormiston on CBC’s The National last night quoted an eye witness as saying “the tail was on fire”.

[dhc#]

The worldwide herd mentality to shutting down 737 Max operations till the cause is found, seems to have momentum building .....Marc Garneau's comments from yesterday seem industry generated...if 18 dead Canadians aren't enough to make him act...how many would ? He has 0 credibility.

[Eric Janson]

Looks like a de facto grounding of the -8 Max everywhere except N America.

I'd expect N America to follow very shortly.

[Heliian]

Susan Ormiston on CBC’s The National last night quoted an eye witness as saying “the tail was on fire”.

It is very common after an accident to hear of an "eyewitness" claiming the aircraft was on fire, almost guaranteed to happen even when there was no fire. Not saying it wasn't, just saying that these reports should be taken with a grain of salt.

I also heard that there was no fire but a lot of gyrations, again from a ground observer, even regular manoeuvering at low altitude could be seen as odd to an eyewitness.

[rookiepilot]

Boeing Statement

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/uk-has- ... craft.html

Boeing noted that the FAA decided not to ground the planes and it wasn't planning to issue new guidance to pilots "based on the information currently available."

"We understand that regulatory agencies and customers have made decisions that they believe are most appropriate for their home markets," Boeing said in a statement. "We'll continue to engage with all of them to ensure they have all the information they need to have the confidence they need safely continue to operate their fleets or return them to service."

[Capt. Underpants]

The worldwide herd mentality to shutting down 737 Max operations till the cause is found, seems to have momentum building .....Marc Garneau's comments from yesterday seem industry generated...if 18 dead Canadians aren't enough to make him act...how many would ? He has 0 credibility.

They didn't just sit on their hands and wait for Trump to tell them what to do after Lion Air. They worked together with AC, WS and WG and came up with a strategy and guidance for pilots. The MAX pilots I've talked to are very confident they are familiar with the issues and know what to do about it.

[tsgas]

The worldwide herd mentality to shutting down 737 Max operations till the cause is found, seems to have momentum building .....Marc Garneau's comments from yesterday seem industry generated...if 18 dead Canadians aren't enough to make him act...how many would ? He has 0 credibility.

They didn't just sit on their hands and wait for Trump to tell them what to do after Lion Air. They worked together with AC, WS and WG and came up with a strategy and guidance for pilots. The MAX pilots I've talked to are very confident they are familiar with the issues and know what to do about it.

and what does President Trump have to do with this ? Sounda like you are pushing you own personal political agenda when we should be dealing with the facts.

[bobcaygeon]

No political involvement??

There no coincidence that North America is essentially the only place that has not grounded the plane. Boeing has a monstrous political lobby group that has likely been knocking on/ kicking in so many doors right now that you're dreaming if you think the FAA is not being politically pressured and is likely reacting to this to keep the plane flying.

Boeing has no qualms about using their power to get what they want ie KC-46 program is just on example The rudder reversal issue in the past was similar as well

My guess is that Trump would be lobbying to keep it in the air vs park it regardless of the facts.

[av8ts]

The worldwide herd mentality to shutting down 737 Max operations till the cause is found, seems to have momentum building .....Marc Garneau's comments from yesterday seem industry generated...if 18 dead Canadians aren't enough to make him act...how many would ? He has 0 credibility.

They didn't just sit on their hands and wait for Trump to tell them what to do after Lion Air. They worked together with AC, WS and WG and came up with a strategy and guidance for pilots. The MAX pilots I've talked to are very confident they are familiar with the issues and know what to do about it.

and what does President Trump have to do with this ? Sounda like you are pushing you own personal political agenda when we should be dealing with the facts.

How about his latest tweet

[GRK2]

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly," Trump tweeted. "Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better."

"Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger," he continued. "All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!"

Trump already weighing in with his obvious expertise at what makes a good pilot!

"The Hill" is where you can find the full article published...And I see someone already posted...

[Meatservo]

I consider the American president to be a profoundly amoral and dissipated individual, but I have to say I agree with the basic sentiment in the above "tweet".

How much more difficult to handle safely than a regular 737 does the new nacelle placement make it? Was it really necessary to install this murderous little contraption versus publishing say some airspeed limitations for that very specific flight regime, or making the horizontal stab very slightly larger, or training for the miniscule handling difference? I'm probably just asking for some "AvCanada" mockery by saying this, but isn't it sort of a vicious cycle wherein the risk from reducing pilot training and experience levels is mitigated by making planes easier to fly, which in turn mitigates the need for pilot training and experience, which in turn makes it necessary to make planes even easier to fly? At some point the plane becomes this Rube-Goldberg assortment of mechanical and electronic measures and counter-measures intended to make flying easier to master while making the machine itself almost impossible to understand, even for the guys who design it.

Let's make a system where, when the plane pitches up, a ball rolls back and hits a steel plate, which makes a sound that scares a cat, who has a string tied to his tail, which pulls a lever, which knocks a ball-bearing down a chute, which lands in a glass of water, which overflows, and the water soaks into a sponge, which gets heavier and pushes down on a scale, the other end of which knocks aside a lever, which is holding back a twisted-up rubber band, which unwinds and drives a little generator, which powers a small electric car, which rolls forward and gently pushes open a trap door, which releases a small vial of acid, which trickles onto a string, which is holding back a 500-pound safe hanging from a rope on the cockpit ceiling, which drops down and lands on a bellcrank that sets off a buzzer in the cargo bay, which scares a horse, who runs forward and moves the centre of gravity forward. In case the horse is scared by anything else, we could put a cowboy back there with him, who can hold him back by saying "Woah!" but only if he is instructed to do so by a light from the cockpit, which is activated by a tiny, difficult-to-find button under an opaque plastic cover that is not mentioned anywhere in the FCOM. That way, we could omit the "stall recovery" portion from simulator training, and then schools could stop teaching it, which would save time and money. Perfect. I should work for Boeing!

[Aux1]

Iceland and Germany join list of countries deciding to ban 737 MAX 8 aircraft.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/boe ... index.html

[Donald]

From AvHerald today:

On Mar 11th 2019 two listeners on frequency reported independently the crew declared emergency shortly after normal departure, while in the initial climb, reporting they had unreliable airspeed indications and had difficulties to control the aircraft. The listeners could not hear later transmissions due to frequency changes.

[Aux1]

Netherlands suspends Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/boe ... index.html

[rookiepilot]

https://business.financialpost.com/tran ... 1552410686

Canada shows up in the discussion.

"I’ve canceled all my meetings and public events today in order to meet with my Civil Aviation Expert Panel. All evidence is being evaluated in real time and we’re considering all potential actions,” Minister Marc Garneau posted on Twitter midday Tuesday."

That's nice, Marc............................

And...............................

EASA TO SUSPEND ALL BOEING 737 MAX OPERATIONS IN EUROPE (twitter)

[boeingboy]

Wow.....talk about an over-reaction from almost everybody. It's the herd mentality at it's worst.

It's now all about optics. If everyone else is doing it - you cant hold out forever. Of course - now you have joe blow public all in a tizzy and not wanting to fly on the Max. There has to be a worldwide grounding now.

[Aux1]

Wow.....talk about an over-reaction from almost everybody. It's the herd mentality at it's worst.

Lion Air + Ethiopian = 346 lost souls.

Over-reaction?