Twin otter on the ice

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

User avatar
TheRealMcCoy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

rigpiggy wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:20 pm You mean like rescuing people from the south pole in winter, or going out at 16500#, or into a strip with a full load of fuel for the military that brings in a helicopter to check condition for the military otter crew, etc,etc,etc....... sorry but DND doesn't hold a lock on sh!thot aircrews, and some of them that i flew with on their transition to big Red weren't as hot as they believed they were. But hey uni degree, and french they were guaranteed to get in.
I'm with you. I'm just curious as to the reasoning of what he's getting at, maybe i'll be in for a surprise.

Borek brought them fuel while they were out there doing their shenanigans?
---------- ADS -----------
 
godsrcrazy
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:12 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by godsrcrazy »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:26 pm
leftoftrack wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:09 am cause the Canadian Military knows more about twin otters then Borek, right AuxBatOn?
The military can accept some risks that a civilian operators wouldn’t be allowed or wouldn’t want to accept to accomplish a task. Our risk management processes from an airworthiness point of view are very different than TCCA.

It’s not so much “how” we operate the aircraft (which I am sure most companies have more expertise than we do) rather than the conditions in which we can operate the aircraft.
There are a pile of Civilian operators that can do any task the Military does and better with the Twin Otter. Just give them the Canadian Tax payers backing and they would be more than happy to take it on.
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7173
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by pelmet »

Mr. North wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:32 am Sounds like a Station 60 to me. The one significant weakness to an otherwise extremely robust bush plane.

Not sure if it was a factor in this case but as others have mentioned, landing on unproven snow or ice in flat light is not without considerable risk. Overcast conditions make recognizing the size and contours of snow drifts incredibly difficult. One mitigating factor would be to conduct a ski drag (dragging the heals of the skis over the surface) to assess the solidity of the terrain, usually followed with a second pass to inspect ones tracks. Sometimes though the contrast is so poor even a ski drag is a risk in itself.

Another factor at play here would be the use of wheel skis. The utility of wheel skis is at the expense of durability. When flying wheel skis it is important to keep in mind that they do not enjoy the flex of the leaf springs on board skis. Wheel skis are more rigid and much heavier than boards. The increased weight coupled with the broader surface area imparts much more force on the poor nose strut. Drifts that board skis would normally cut through or absorb can be quite jarring on wheel skis.

So baby that nose gear, especially on wheel skis. That means proving the ground you're about to touch down on. And on landing keep the nose off the ground until the last.. possible.. moment. Once on the ground it's also a good idea to taxi the full length of your planned take off run. Station 60's also occur on takeoff when pilots (often with a heavy load) run beyond their landing roll into unproven ground.

Sometimes despite all your efforts you break something. Its part of flying in the North.

However, returning to the incident at hand I find it interesting that the CF had to employ a heavy lift heli to recover their aircraft. There just so happens to be a well known DHC6 operator in Inuvik with a brand new hangar and a full complement of engineers with plenty of experience in just this sort of thing. But that's the bureaucracy of the CF for you. I respect our members in uniform but their methods of operating in the Arctic is always slow and cumbersome.
Looks like it happened again....

Original report in French...."C-GNDO, un appareil de type de Havilland DHC-6-300 exploité par Air Inuit, effectuait le vol
AIE641 depuis un camp situé au N55°40.74 / W077°11.17, QC à destination de Kuujjuarapik
(CYGW) QC, avec 2 pilotes à bord. Lors du décollage, un des skis s’est pris dans la neige, la roue
de nez s’est arrachée, et l’appareil est sorti de l’aire de décollage. L’appareil s’est immobilisé en
dehors de la surface préparée pour le décollage. Il n’y a eu aucun blessé. Le nez de l’appareil ainsi
que l’aile gauche, le train d'atterrissage, ainsi que le moteur et l’hélice de gauche ont tous subi des
dommages substantiels.

Google Translate report.....

"C-GNDO, a de Havilland DHC-6-300 aircraft operated by Air Inuit, was flying
AIE641 from a camp at N55 ° 40.74 / W077 ° 11.17, QC to Kuujjuarapik
(CYGW) QC, with 2 pilots on board. During take-off, one of the skis was caught in the snow, the wheel
Nose was torn off, and the aircraft came out of the takeoff area. The aircraft came to a standstill
outside the surface prepared for take-off. There were no injuries. The nose of the device as well
that the left wing, the landing gear, as well as the engine and the left propeller have all undergone
substantial damage."

Some might recognize that registraion....ex-Nordair......
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GC ... iAsjP0D07M:
---------- ADS -----------
 
DashFiveGuy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by DashFiveGuy »

I expect we'll see a resumption of slamming of the RCAF in this thread in roughly T-24 hours.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
TheRealMcCoy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

DashFiveGuy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 am I expect we'll see a resumption of slamming of the RCAF in this thread in roughly T-24 hours.
Hahahahahah. Like the other day when the Twin didn't cancel his IFR 10+ miles out on a severe clear day and made us old short and not take off?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Donald
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2375
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Location: Canada

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by Donald »

TheRealMcCoy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:11 pm
DashFiveGuy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 am I expect we'll see a resumption of slamming of the RCAF in this thread in roughly T-24 hours.
Hahahahahah. Like the other day when the Twin didn't cancel his IFR 10+ miles out on a severe clear day and made us old short and not take off?
Unable to depart VFR and pick up the clearance later?
---------- ADS -----------
 
DashFiveGuy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by DashFiveGuy »

DashFiveGuy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 am I expect we'll see a resumption of slamming of the RCAF in this thread in roughly T-24 hours.
TheRealMcCoy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:11 pmHahahahahah. Like the other day when the Twin didn't cancel his IFR 10+ miles out on a severe clear day and made us old short and not take off?
Not sure how that is relevant to this thread but nope, not even remotely close. T-12 hour’s now (roughly).
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by PilotDAR »

made us old short and not take off?
I think it happens to everyone with age....
---------- ADS -----------
 
DashFiveGuy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by DashFiveGuy »

DashFiveGuy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 am I expect we'll see a resumption of slamming of the RCAF in this thread in roughly T-24 hours.

Okay, well I guess I would have lost that bet.
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7173
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by pelmet »

Perhaps give us an explanation so we can start the slamming.
---------- ADS -----------
 
leftoftrack
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Twin otter on the ice

Post by leftoftrack »

Did Air Inuit spend 15m bringing a heavy lift helo from down south to hoist their duel otter off the ice? Every offstrip operation is gonna have snags, the forces recovery is the real joke
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”