Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

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pelmet
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:57 am
pelmet wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:41 am
Oh, oh. Based on the replies, it looks like I may have discovered some of the people that are the type to block escape from a burning aircraft due to retrieving their valuables. Sorry boys, you are getting a fist in the face if you block me in such a situation, hopefully enough to knock you down.

By the way, those who have no words, or no respect for me, or are blocking me might want to read this article about the Moscow tragedy.....

So to all other folks remember, these characters on the forum badmouthing me will result in your death in such a situation. You have seconds to escape. My advice can save your life. Their advice, as has been seen in multiple different discussions, on multiple subjects(where no more than insults are typically given and has resulted in warnings from the mods for two of them) results in much worse for you.

Such arrogance in these trolling comments, trying to defend your own callousness. Step over children as you fight your way off.

I don't think anyone remotely professional here; supports for one second risking anyone's life by getting their stuff.

Reports FWIW says the cabin was evacuated in 55 seconds.

Easy solution: Lockable overhead bins. Case closed.

Sorry all, I can only hear the screaming........
Sorry, it isn't children reaching into the overhead bin and blocking people. Too short. It is grown adults, worried about their cheap duty-free items, etc.

The cabin was not evacuated in 55 seconds. The dead people might very well still be in the cabin and it is quite possible some are dead because of the baggage blockers.

The lockable bins idea has been proposed already. Perhaps it will happen but it won't be a consideration for years to come. My advice is for the reality of today. Case still open.
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Ki-ll
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Ki-ll »

digits_ wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:38 am Was the bounced cause by the emergency, or did the bounce create the emergency?
Supposedly there is an interview with the captain of this flight. He said there was a lightning strike followed by airplane flight control law changing to direct with no protections, similar to Airbus. I looked up the procedure in the QRH, some fuel penalties apply, airplane should be controlled smoothly. He also said the REF speed was out of the book and he doesn’t know why the airplane bounced and burst into flames.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by rookiepilot »

Rowdy wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 11:21 pm
TeePeeCreeper wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:34 pm
Wow. I have no words Pelmet.

That’s ah... no words.
I have him blocked for just such reasons.
Endorse.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by jakeandelwood »

Easy solution: Lockable overhead bins. Case closed.



That's the perfect idea, the overhead bins get locked at the start of the descent and they aren't unlocked till the aircraft is safely stopped at the terminal. This could be done with electro-mechanical locks controlled from a panel by the flight attendant
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rookiepilot
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by rookiepilot »

jakeandelwood wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 11:01 am Easy solution: Lockable overhead bins. Case closed.

That's the perfect idea, the overhead bins get locked at the start of the descent and they aren't unlocked till the aircraft is safely stopped at the terminal. This could be done with electro-mechanical locks controlled from a panel by the flight attendant
Seems slightly more reasonable compared to the other solutions posted.

I'm curious on this little detail in your scenario, Pelmet:

While you're punching out the one doofus blocking your aisle, so he falls and gets trampled by you; how do the little kids, elderly and disabled, trapped at the back of the burning aircraft, get out now that you've permanently blocked the aisle with the 2 or three guys -- or women -- laying there you've cold - cocked?

Or is that not your problem as a "professional pilot"?
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Meatservo
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Meatservo »

Ki-ll wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 8:51 am
digits_ wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:38 am Was the bounced cause by the emergency, or did the bounce create the emergency?
Supposedly there is an interview with the captain of this flight. He said there was a lightning strike followed by airplane flight control law changing to direct with no protections, similar to Airbus. I looked up the procedure in the QRH, some fuel penalties apply, airplane should be controlled smoothly. He also said the REF speed was out of the book and he doesn’t know why the airplane bounced and burst into flames.
So of course I'm indulging myself in some armchair-aviating, but I really, really hope this whole scenario didn't turn from an abnormal procedure into a flaming fireball just because the pilots weren't able to properly handle the plane once the "protections" weren't available. I'm reluctant to come to that conclusion until the effects of this lightning-strike are known -but I find myself hoping that it crippled the controls in some way that made handling the aircraft more difficult than just a lower level of automation. For the sake of the pilots' consciences as well as the reputation of our profession. If some of you guys find this callous, remember the dead are already dead, and context matters in the aftermath.
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Ki-ll
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Ki-ll »

Meatservo wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm
Ki-ll wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 8:51 am
digits_ wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:38 am Was the bounced cause by the emergency, or did the bounce create the emergency?
Supposedly there is an interview with the captain of this flight. He said there was a lightning strike followed by airplane flight control law changing to direct with no protections, similar to Airbus. I looked up the procedure in the QRH, some fuel penalties apply, airplane should be controlled smoothly. He also said the REF speed was out of the book and he doesn’t know why the airplane bounced and burst into flames.
So of course I'm indulging myself in some armchair-aviating, but I really, really hope this whole scenario didn't turn from an abnormal procedure into a flaming fireball just because the pilots weren't able to properly handle the plane once the "protections" weren't available. I'm reluctant to come to that conclusion until the effects of this lightning-strike are known -but I find myself hoping that it crippled the controls in some way that made handling the aircraft more difficult than just a lower level of automation. For the sake of the pilots' consciences as well as the reputation of our profession. If some of you guys find this callous, remember the dead are already dead, and context matters in the aftermath.
I really hope there is more to this story than just pilots not being able to fly the airplane. I heard the captain was a pretty experienced pilot.
The SSJ manual says that control in direct law is adequate and pitch trim is available
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Jet Jockey
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Jet Jockey »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:57 am
pelmet wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:41 am
Oh, oh. Based on the replies, it looks like I may have discovered some of the people that are the type to block escape from a burning aircraft due to retrieving their valuables. Sorry boys, you are getting a fist in the face if you block me in such a situation, hopefully enough to knock you down.

By the way, those who have no words, or no respect for me, or are blocking me might want to read this article about the Moscow tragedy.....

So to all other folks remember, these characters on the forum badmouthing me will result in your death in such a situation. You have seconds to escape. My advice can save your life. Their advice, as has been seen in multiple different discussions, on multiple subjects(where no more than insults are typically given and has resulted in warnings from the mods for two of them) results in much worse for you.

Such arrogance in these trolling comments, trying to defend your own callousness. Step over children as you fight your way off.

I don't think anyone remotely professional here; supports for one second risking anyone's life by getting their stuff.

Reports FWIW says the cabin was evacuated in 55 seconds.

Easy solution: Lockable overhead bins. Case closed.

Sorry all, I can only hear the screaming........

Lol... again you are putting words in his mouth he never said.

He never said or mentioned children and I doubt highly any children would reach up to try to get their luggage out of an overhead bin.

He said he would not be delayed by passengers reaching above in the overhead bins. One as to assume an adult not a young child which could always be moved out of the way easily.

As for the lockable overheads it’s an ongoing discussion but just think of all the extra weight, the extra certification and so on.

Also in a panicked situation assuming the overheads become locked, what makes you think that these idiots would not try to open them anyway wasting even more time to evacuate?
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by rookiepilot »

Jet Jockey wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:18 pm
He never said or mentioned children and I doubt highly any children would reach up to try to get their luggage out of an overhead bin.
Doesn't sound to me like anything would stop the heroes of AvCan.
Exhibit A:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4TuEWtXBT_0


There are heroes -- like in this article below -- a 22 year old flight attendant-- died helping people from the back of the plane.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... -airliner/

Another article says....7 of the bodies were charred beyond recognition.... :shock:
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon May 06, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
goingnowherefast
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by goingnowherefast »

Lock the bins with the seatbelt sign. Not supposed to be in there anyway.

Once that becomes common knowledge, people will stop trying to open them.
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pelmet
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by pelmet »

Jet Jockey wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:18 pm Lol... again you are putting words in his mouth he never said.

Sadly, that has happened repeatedly while also hurling insults and adding no useful information. Hardly a way to intelligently win an argument but for some I guess that just isn't possible.

I suppose if one disagreed with my idea, they could state what they would do in the discussed situation that has been repeatedly happening during evacuations due to fires. Maybe you will reach for your Russian-English dictionary and start searching to find out how to say...."Excuse me sir, you are in the way"
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by AirFrame »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 3:12 pm Another article says....7 of the bodies were charred beyond recognition.... :shock:
Maybe less shocking if you consider that they would have been dead long before that level of charring occurred.
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Donald
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Donald »

Interesting the knee-jerk reactions to this crash to:

A). Ban the Sukhoi SuperJet.

B). Award medals to the flight crew for heroically landing and initiating the evacuation.
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Meatservo »

Donald wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 8:24 am Interesting the knee-jerk reactions to this crash to:

A). Ban the Sukhoi SuperJet.

B). Award medals to the flight crew for heroically landing and initiating the evacuation.
It would be nice to establish whether or not the evacuation was made necessary BY the flight crew's landing, before giving them any medals. Seems to me the cabin crew distinguished themselves, and I hope the flight crew did too. I think the important thing to find out is what damage the lightning strike inflicted on the plane's controllability and what this contributed to the horrible landing that caused the fire. Before we start handing out medals.
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by ikarus »

Is it me, or does it look like the engines (or at least starboard one) was still running during the evacuation video?? It seems like major flames are shooting out from the back, although it's hard to see, since the entire half of aircraft was burning..
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Alav »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 3:26 pm Lock the bins with the seatbelt sign. Not supposed to be in there anyway.

Once that becomes common knowledge, people will stop trying to open them.
Hahaha, no then they'll delay longer as they try to use anything in reach to pry open and argue with the flight crew that they're not leaving without their carry-on.
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by rookiepilot »

https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2019 ... i-superjet

If we can stop these important threads from being highjacked ---- idiot pax certainly didn't cause this crash -- the more important questions revolve around:

Safety issues with this jet?

Why didn't the flight crew dump fuel?

Why would an aircraft go up in flames like that, even after a hard landing?
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by plhought »

I doubt the SSJ has any facilities to jettison fuel.

Let's be honest - the pilot completely stuffed the landing even if in 'Direct' law (also newsflash - every Airbus landing is in Direct law below 50ft anyways - I imagine the Sukhoi is similar).

Typical Russian disastrous conclusion that probably could have been solved by slowing the f down and a little bit of CRM
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by bald seagull »

59768469_10219758125009002_6877244240154329088_n.jpg
59768469_10219758125009002_6877244240154329088_n.jpg (39.42 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet on fire Moscow

Post by Heliian »

bald seagull wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 10:32 pm 59768469_10219758125009002_6877244240154329088_n.jpg
The smoke is the killer.

Selfish assholes abound around the world, generally the flying public are a bunch of idiots. This grabbing of the carryon during an evacuation is never going to be fixed. Throw in panic from the rest of the passengers who didn't bother to pay attention to the safety briefing or their surroundings and I'm surprised anyone made it off.
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