Quebec R44 missing.

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rookiepilot
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Quebec R44 missing.

Post by rookiepilot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:14 am

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Ypilot
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Ypilot » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:10 pm

An S&R helicopter went down while looking for these guys, I hope everyone is fine!
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Capt. Underpants » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:25 am

Deleted
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Last edited by Capt. Underpants on Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by jpilot77 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:38 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.5211676

Here’s the article about the search and rescue chopper accident.
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Ypilot
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Ypilot » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:56 pm

They found the helicopter wreckage. RIP to the father and son.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by redlaser » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:31 pm

The helicopter is still missing, no signs of the father and son so far, search has been abandoned by SAR and provincial police,
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bigsky
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by bigsky » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:30 pm

redlaser wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:31 pm
The helicopter is still missing, no signs of the father and son so far, search has been abandoned by SAR and provincial police,

Hmmm.. this says they were found on the 25th.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.5225224
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J31
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by J31 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:56 am

An ELT is completely useless if you do not maintain and arm it. :roll:

From CTV News:

The emergency locator transmission on the helicopter flown by a prominent Quebec businessman who went missing along with his son was turned off, according to a report released by the Transportation Safety Board on Friday.

Stephane Roy, the president of produce company Savoura, and his 14-year-old son Justin went missing while returning from a fishing trip in the Upper Laurentians on July 10. The two were in a helicopter piloted by the elder Roy. Volunteers, police and the Canadian Armed Forces scoured the area for weeks and the bodies of the two were found on July 25 when the Surete du Quebec located on aircraft on the ground in the Lac Valtrie area.

According to the TSB report no emergency locator transmitter signal was received after the helicopter went down. Analysis of the wreckage found that the transmitter’s switch was turned to the off position.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/emergency-t ... -1.4534700
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Victory » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:07 am

Sounds like a murder plot. Time to see who benefits from his death.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Dry Guy » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:17 am

His company sells greenhouse grown tomatoes which has a big overlap with the facilities required to produce marijuana on an industrial scale. Maybe he pissed off the wrong people.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Heliian » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Victory wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:07 am
Sounds like a murder plot. Time to see who benefits from his death.
Well that went sideways.

Do you even know where the elt is located on the r44?

Sounds like it was mistakenly left off after maintenance.

The r44 is the fork tailed doctor killer of helicopters, even skilled pilots have been killed due to their instability and poor design.

There isn't a poor man that owns one either.

You guys need to get some fresh air.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by pelmet » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:20 pm

Heliian wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:39 pm
The r44 is the fork tailed doctor killer of helicopters, even skilled pilots have been killed due to their instability and poor design.
Hi,

Confirm this is the R44 that has this problem or is it the R22?
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pelmet
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by pelmet » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:31 pm

pelmet wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:20 pm
Heliian wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:39 pm
The r44 is the fork tailed doctor killer of helicopters, even skilled pilots have been killed due to their instability and poor design.
Hi,

Confirm this is the R44 that has this problem or is it the R22?
Thanks,

I might just get into helicopters some day and fully intend to avoid Robinsons. I thought it was just R22's that were a problem. Will look for a forgiving machine, perhaps an old Bell 47.

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/socia ... -crashing/

Some advice from the article'.....

"I was just talking to John Fogden [formerly of the CAA] about that. He said: ‘How do you hold your cyclic [control stick]?’ I told him I always tucked it into my knee as it gives more stability. “If you go through a bad patch of turbulence, the stick is held steady and that stops you from putting the wrong input in – which could lead to a mast bump.”

Just shows how an anonymous internet forum could save your life.
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blue thunder
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by blue thunder » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:44 pm

How did we get on the R22/R44 are horrible subject? We have no idea what caused this tragic accident. In my experiences, helicopters don't crash, usually the person behind the controls has (at least) something to do with it. If you put your mind to it, you can pretty much trash any chopper out there. Just my 2 cents.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Dry Guy » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:59 pm

In my experience helicopters crash constantly. Then the helicopter they send to find the first one that crashed crashes too.
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Heliian
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Heliian » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:10 pm

pelmet wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:31 pm
pelmet wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:20 pm
Heliian wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:39 pm
The r44 is the fork tailed doctor killer of helicopters, even skilled pilots have been killed due to their instability and poor design.
Hi,

Confirm this is the R44 that has this problem or is it the R22?
Thanks,

I might just get into helicopters some day and fully intend to avoid Robinsons. I thought it was just R22's that were a problem. Will look for a forgiving machine, perhaps an old Bell 47.

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/socia ... -crashing/

Some advice from the article'.....

"I was just talking to John Fogden [formerly of the CAA] about that. He said: ‘How do you hold your cyclic [control stick]?’ I told him I always tucked it into my knee as it gives more stability. “If you go through a bad patch of turbulence, the stick is held steady and that stops you from putting the wrong input in – which could lead to a mast bump.”

Just shows how an anonymous internet forum could save your life.
https://dai.ly/x35d4p5 I think this was him

I am not a fan of Robinson products.

However, they have proven to be useful in the right hands and are a commercial success.

One accident that stands out is the drunk guy up in northern bc? or Alberta? They tend to burn less now that they were forced to put bladders in too.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:01 pm

I had a R22 in my flight school.

They are very reliable mechanically but are real touchy to fly, if you can smoothly fly a R22 all the other helicopters are a breeze to fly.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:01 pm

I had a R22 in my flight school.

They are very reliable mechanically but are real touchy to fly, if you can smoothly fly a R22 all the other helicopters are a breeze to fly.
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pelmet
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by pelmet » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:38 pm

Some good info on this thread,,,,

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/40577 ... ime-6.html

But......nothing about experienced fixed wing pilots transitioning to a helicopter. I seem to vaguely remember something about an natural instinctive reaction from such a pilot to some sort of situation can be fatal in a Robinson. If true, a good reason to avoid for someone like me.

Anybody?
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Heliian
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Heliian » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 am

Low g pushover.
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pelmet
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by pelmet » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:17 am

Heliian wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 am
Low g pushover.
I believe that is what is was. Then the rotor hits the tail and that's it. So, the large amount of fixed wing time is possibly fatal. That is where one needs to perhaps use some experience and judgement to say...forget it. I will look into a type that doesn't have this deadly potential. Instinct can be extremely difficult to overcome.

Something to think about.

http://www.helicopterinstruction.com/mast-bumping/
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by P-40 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:41 am

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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by jakeandelwood » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:37 pm

Well that little video is "to the point" :shock: I know absolutely nothing about helicopters but why wouldn't the rotor be designed so that it's physically impossible for it to touch any other part of the helicopter? It seems to just be common sense to me, but again, I'm ignorant of helicopter design. To me it looks like the Robinson has a much higher/longer mast than other helicopters
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Heliian
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by Heliian » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:26 pm

They forgot the blades breaking off mid flight.
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Re: Quebec R44 missing.

Post by PilotDAR » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:08 pm

The article is overly dramatic. There's truth in it, but those truths apply to many Bell helicopters also. I agree that a low cost, entry level helicopter, coupled with a simple airframe and systems makes it a more vulnerable combination. The Bell 206 is also vulnerable to mast bumping if mishandled, and it has happened, but Bell 206 and larger Bells are probably flown by more experienced pilots, and not subject to the same "maneuvering" which may be being attempted in the Robinsons. The R22 and R44 just are not designed for the same aggressive maneuvering as other types. They'll do it, but not with the margin of safety of a three or more blade main rotor.

I flew the R22, and having done that, chose the SW300 for my training, and am still happy with my choice. Yes, one can blame inexperienced pilots, but any certified aircraft must not require "unusual pilot skill and attention" to safely fly. In my opinion, the R22 and R44 are a little closer to that line, and typically being flown by recreational pilots who may have less training, experience and self discipline.
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