Another Norseman...gone

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4085
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Another Norseman...gone

Post by pelmet » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:26 pm

C-FENB, a float-equipped Noorduyn UC-64A aircraft operated by Wings Over Kississing, was
conducting a flight from Thompson (CKD6), MB to Big Sand Lake, MB with only the pilot on board.
During a glassy water landing, the aircraft impacted the water. Both pontoons failed, and the
aircraft sank almost immediately. With difficulty, the pilot was able to exit the right hand rear door
after unhooking some cargo netting, and swam to a damaged pontoon. Subsequently, the pilot was
rescued by a boat. The aircraft was submerged and sustained substantial damage. The pilot
received minor injuries.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1679
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:13 am

That's a shame, at least only minor injuries. Impacted is probably just correct terminology but sounds like a hard hit. Could you actually belly flop hard enough to break both floats or is a defect more likely (old age etc?)
---------- ADS -----------
  

Spandau
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:05 am

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by Spandau » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:45 am

Hitting water the wrong way is just as abrupt as hitting concrete, and glassy water landings have been wrecking airplanes since the days of Glenn Curtiss. I would doubt age or fatigue played any part in the accident - just my opinion.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1679
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:50 am

Ok I figured, but didn't know how wrong it had to go (relatively easy vs very difficult) to destroy a float, but both going obviously sounds like a misjudged landing.
---------- ADS -----------
  

corethatthermal
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by corethatthermal » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:22 am

If the lake is small, a glassy landing is a little easier and a little harder. You have more peripheral clues to set up the final inst approach lower BUT you cannot mess that up or you go into the trees! A 150-300 FPM descent rate is about ideal and produces a FIRM touchdown but not enough to incur any damage. On a small lake , you do a normal approach , then immediately at low altitude set up for a glassy with your known pitch and power settings, basically lock the pitch control after that and WAIT !
---------- ADS -----------
  

Mick G
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by Mick G » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:35 am

I find this subject line misleading, it may end up being a future project for someone, I wouldn't say it is gone for good
---------- ADS -----------
  

switchflicker
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:25 am

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by switchflicker » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:40 am

Yeah, Gone is such a nasty word.
Temporarily drowned would be so much nicer.
---------- ADS -----------
  
"I'd rather have it and not need than to need it and not have it" Capt. Augustus McCrae.

Meatservo
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2424
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by Meatservo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:38 am

I know this isn't true for everyone, but for me, over 20 years of commercial float-flying from little Cessnas, Caravans, Otters, Beavers and Twin Otters all over Canada; every glassy water landing gave me a slightly elevated heart-rate. Never bunged one up but never approached the situation casually, either. The worst one I can remember was trying to land a Twin Otter on a perfectly circular lake. At that point I was kind of new on the machine and found the CAP floats required an approach attitude I wasn't wholly familiar with. I took three tries at this lake. Its perfectly circular shape meant no shoreline in my peripheral vision and the only thing I could see after passing over the beach was the camp on the opposite shore coming up fast. On the second go-around, I must have actually touched without realizing it because when I circled back around there was a wake on the water and I quickly came back and landed on that. The boys at the camp thought I had deliberately been "buzzing" them...

Of course, I became confident at glassy landings in the Twin, but always treated it as an "instrument" procedure, although of course it's almost the opposite- you can see out the window perfectly well until AFTER minimums...then you're blind.

Anyway, glad the Norseman pilot wasn't hurt. It must have been an extremely shocking event. Glad he was able to get out, and like you guys say, someone will probably fish out the plane and bring her back. Hopefully.
---------- ADS -----------
  
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself

C.W.E.
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1145
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by C.W.E. » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:35 pm

Anyone here ever have a dead battery when flying the Norseman and have to hand crank that beast with the inertial starter?

For sure it really made a racket when taking off and it also took a long run on the water if it was loaded and no or very little wind
---------- ADS -----------
  

beechnut
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:08 pm
Location: b.c.

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by beechnut » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:26 pm

It's gone and won't be back
---------- ADS -----------
  

sunk
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:51 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by sunk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:02 pm

I have pictures of the accident while in the water and after the recovery, it will never fly again.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by PilotDAR » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:13 pm

but sounds like a hard hit. Could you actually belly flop hard enough to break both floats
Yes, and many bones too.
---------- ADS -----------
  

corethatthermal
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by corethatthermal » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:17 pm

Speaking of bones, I broke a few in my arm very recently, while hang gliding on a perfectly good and safe day . I wrote up a post briefing letter if anyone is interested. The accident sequence started about 2 years prior !!! Reading accident reports are quite interesting for me especially seeing the swiss cheese holes lining up and nothing being done about it! My accident was typically the same swiss cheese model and not a great pleasure to write the report about !
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Siddley Hawker
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:56 pm
Location: 50.13N 66.17W

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by Siddley Hawker » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:35 pm

...The pilot received minor injuries.
The pilot hurt his back. Lest anyone think it couldn't happen to me, this has a load of time on floats on everything from Cessnas to the Beech 18 and Mallard.
---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4085
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by pelmet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:32 am

Siddley Hawker wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:35 pm
...The pilot received minor injuries.
The pilot hurt his back. Lest anyone think it couldn't happen to me, this has a load of time on floats on everything from Cessnas to the Beech 18 and Mallard.
If you hear anything more, let us know. Maybe there was an issue with the aircraft.
---------- ADS -----------
  

corethatthermal
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by corethatthermal » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:06 am

Has anyone in the float world tried backside power approaches to a glassy then transition to front side approach by adding power and be immediately onto the glassy approach profile for your A/C ?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Meatservo
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2424
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by Meatservo » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:05 am

corethatthermal wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:06 am
Has anyone in the float world tried backside power approaches to a glassy then transition to front side approach by adding power and be immediately onto the glassy approach profile for your A/C ?
No.
---------- ADS -----------
  
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by PilotDAR » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:42 pm

Has anyone in the float world tried backside power approaches to a glassy then transition to front side approach by adding power and be immediately onto the glassy approach profile for your A/C ?
No.
---------- ADS -----------
  

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by phillyfan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:44 pm

Wtf does that even mean?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1679
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 pm

phillyfan wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:44 pm
Wtf does that even mean?
Ok good not just me. Thought this was some mystic float pilot knowledge not available to us mortals.
---------- ADS -----------
  

DHC2eater
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:02 am

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by DHC2eater » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm

:smt014 Let me get it right..... approach behind the power curve.....lots of power nose up.... ...... transition to in front of the power curve... stuff the nose over more power....

Doesn’t sound like a stabilized GW approach to me....

Might work for aerobatics or crop spraying or something I guess....

When I hear shit like this it makes it more clear why there are a rash of accidents taking place right now!!!

Eater
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by PilotDAR » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:15 pm

Yeah... It was the "transition" part which got me.

The whole point of a glassy water approach is to definitely not transition anything, until you contact the water under control, then you can transition to staying on the water by removing power, and not bouncing. Otherwise, if, during the glassy water approach, you can't tell when you're going to touch, you wouldn't know when to transition anything about the approach!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1493
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by rookiepilot » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:27 pm

Sounds like when Waze instructs me, "stay to the left then stay to the right"
---------- ADS -----------
  

C.W.E.
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1145
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:27 pm

Sometimes it just gets so bizarre in the discussions it is frightening.

Glassy water landings done correctly are very safe and easy.

Done wrong they can be deadly.

Where do some of these ideas come from?
---------- ADS -----------
  

goldeneagle
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Re: Another Norseman...gone

Post by goldeneagle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:43 pm

corethatthermal wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:06 am
Has anyone in the float world tried backside power approaches to a glassy then transition to front side approach by adding power and be immediately onto the glassy approach profile for your A/C ?
Have you ever flown a floatplane ?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”