B-17 down in Connecticut
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
B-17 down in Connecticut
Crashed on approach. Some fatalities reported.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/nyre ... e=Homepage
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/nyre ... e=Homepage
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Now reported as a de-icing facility.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
I actually know one of the B-17 copilots who owns a couple of warbirds as well. He gives lessons in them and I have flown several times with him. Super nice guy and has given me some interesting insight into the foundation. Great place. Just tried to call him. He flies the bombers and fighters. Hoping all is OK with him.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Foundation is now grounded for passenger rides due to bad maintenance leading to the crash. You can read more on the links below....
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... =3&t=71446
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa ... assengers/
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... =3&t=71446
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa ... assengers/
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Docket has been published. A lot of information provided......
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100356
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100356
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
No oversight by the FAA.
Poor to non existent maintenance.
Poor to no training of crew members.
No emergency briefing for passengers.
Very experienced B17 pilot with virtually no recurrent emergency training.
The list goes on, showing a very damning picture of Collings Foundation "Living History Flight Exemptions" B17 program.
Poor to non existent maintenance.
Poor to no training of crew members.
No emergency briefing for passengers.
Very experienced B17 pilot with virtually no recurrent emergency training.
The list goes on, showing a very damning picture of Collings Foundation "Living History Flight Exemptions" B17 program.
- geodoc
- Rank 4
- Posts: 293
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:50 am
- Location: Closer than Objects Usually Appear
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Juan Brown (Blancolirio) has a pretty comprehensive pair of videos about it:
.
.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:59 pm
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Good information in that report. There is a typo though, it stated that the Chief Pilot was 23 years old and had been in that position for 3 years.
A very thorough report.
A very thorough report.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Hey mods - can ya throw a date on the title of these year-old accident threads?
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I know a pilot who did some flying on that B-17. He mentioned to me about the chief pilot and yes, he was that young. And my friend flew with him on the B-24. Seemed strange to me. At the time I was told that he was supposedly very impressive. We will see if the final report has any further info.parallel60 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:24 pm Good information in that report. There is a typo though, it stated that the Chief Pilot was 23 years old and had been in that position for 3 years.
A very thorough report.
https://www.facebook.com/collings.found ... 931287028/
https://www.instagram.com/robcanfly/?hl=en
Last edited by pelmet on Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:59 pm
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Thanks for the correction. That is VERY impressive. It is great to see these amazing aircraft restored and flying again. Unfortunate to see what has happened to this particular B-17, and hopefully much can be applied and learnt from this incident. I read the occasional report and I found this one to contain A LOT of invaluable information whether a Pilot has 200 hrs or 20,000. Everyone can take something from reading the report.pelmet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:13 pmI mentioned earlier in the thread that I know a pilot who did some flying on that B-17. He mentioned to me about the chief pilot and yes, he was that young. And my friend flew with him on the B-24. Seemed strange to me. At the time I was told that he was supposedly very impressive. We will see if the final report has any further info.parallel60 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:24 pm Good information in that report. There is a typo though, it stated that the Chief Pilot was 23 years old and had been in that position for 3 years.
A very thorough report.
https://www.facebook.com/collings.found ... 931287028/
https://www.instagram.com/robcanfly/?hl=en
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Two engines out on the same side is a big deal, even at medium weight for an aircraft.
The pilot was slow and descending to maintain control. A much better option would have been to land on the cross runway instead of cranking it around through 180 degrees to get to the longer runway. The cross runway was almost 7000' long and would have only been a 90° turn.
Putting the gear down was probably a fatal mistake. Perhaps if one had excess speed and could avoid level offs, it might be OK depending on the drag of the gear as it can vary significantly from type to type. One might want to wait until short final or choose not to extend the gear at all when performance is really limited. Big decisions.
Therefore, in an emergency, I suspect that the copilot, who was experienced as a pilot, would have been unlikely to have had valuable information listened to. While I was surprised to hear about the shoddy maintenance, I was not surprised to hear about this pilots poor performance.
The pilot was slow and descending to maintain control. A much better option would have been to land on the cross runway instead of cranking it around through 180 degrees to get to the longer runway. The cross runway was almost 7000' long and would have only been a 90° turn.
Putting the gear down was probably a fatal mistake. Perhaps if one had excess speed and could avoid level offs, it might be OK depending on the drag of the gear as it can vary significantly from type to type. One might want to wait until short final or choose not to extend the gear at all when performance is really limited. Big decisions.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I know a pilot who did some flying on that B-17. I was also familiar with the captain of the crash as I had been told about him. A former NFL player. I was told that this pilot was not enjoyable to fly with because he was a one man show with no CRM. Unfriendly and basically treated you in a manner that made you wish you were flying with someone else. But if you wanted to fly the B17, you were stuck flying with him. No CRM. The NTSB is aware of this.parallel60 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:24 pm Good information in that report. There is a typo though, it stated that the Chief Pilot was 23 years old and had been in that position for 3 years.
A very thorough report.
Therefore, in an emergency, I suspect that the copilot, who was experienced as a pilot, would have been unlikely to have had valuable information listened to. While I was surprised to hear about the shoddy maintenance, I was not surprised to hear about this pilots poor performance.
Last edited by pelmet on Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: B-17 down in Connecticut
Accident report released......
https://abc7ny.com/pilot-error-likely-c ... /10513189/
According to the news report.....
"The NTSB said the flight data indicated that the landing gear was extended too early, adding drag that slowed the plane, and it was traveling too slow on its return to the airport.
"The B-17 could likely have overflown the approach lights and landed on the runway had the pilot kept the landing gear retracted and accelerated to 120 mph until it was evident the airplane would reach the runway," the NTSB said."
https://abc7ny.com/pilot-error-likely-c ... /10513189/
According to the news report.....
"The NTSB said the flight data indicated that the landing gear was extended too early, adding drag that slowed the plane, and it was traveling too slow on its return to the airport.
"The B-17 could likely have overflown the approach lights and landed on the runway had the pilot kept the landing gear retracted and accelerated to 120 mph until it was evident the airplane would reach the runway," the NTSB said."