Strong headwinds cause crash?

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pelmet
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Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by pelmet »

Someone on another forum claimed that there would be no new causes of airplane crashes this year. Maybe I found one.

"C-IFKK, a Zenair CH701 advanced ultralight, was conducting a VFR flight from Gimli, MB to
Riverton, MB. While enroute, gusty headwind conditions were encountered to the point where the
aircraft was moving backwards in relation to the ground and was losing altitude. As power lines
were underneath the aircraft, the pilot lowered the nose in an attempt to avoid them. The aircraft
subsequently stalled and struck the terrain below. The pilot sustained minor injuries and the aircraft
was destroyed."
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photofly
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by photofly »

pelmet wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:10 am Someone on another forum claimed that there would be no new causes of airplane crashes this year. Maybe I found one.

"C-IFKK, a Zenair CH701 advanced ultralight, was conducting a VFR flight from Gimli, MB to
Riverton, MB. While enroute, gusty headwind conditions were encountered to the point where the
aircraft was moving backwards in relation to the ground and was losing altitude. As power lines
were underneath the aircraft, the pilot lowered the nose in an attempt to avoid them. The aircraft
subsequently stalled and struck the terrain below. The pilot sustained minor injuries and the aircraft
was destroyed."
Does it count as an airplane?
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Victory
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by Victory »

A stall speed of 26 kts and a strong headwind must have made that a pretty cushy crash.
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by Capt. Underpants »

Since when does "lowering the nose" lead to a stall condition? Was he flying inverted?
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photofly
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by photofly »

Capt. Underpants wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:49 am Since when does "lowering the nose" lead to a stall condition? Was he flying inverted?
Flying backwards, flying inverted, they can be very hard to distinguish, sometimes.
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by Redneck_pilot86 »

turning wasn't an option?
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ahramin
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by ahramin »

I think the gusty conditions beyond the pilot's abilities is what caused the stall, not lowering the nose. It says subsequent.

What I want to know is how do headwinds make you descend and how do you avoid power lines below you by lowering the nose?
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by valleyboy »

Seems to me this falls under the "no new causes" thing - why would someone go flying in those winds with that type. Pilot error is not new. I'm sure the winds didn't just happen and he likely failed to check forecasts.
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5x5
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by 5x5 »

Have flown "backwards" any number of times in 152/172 during slow flight exercises. Never lost altitude as a result and never stalled unexpectedly. I'd guess perhaps some lack of awareness was at fault - and that's nothing new.
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photofly
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by photofly »

It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by PilotDAR »

It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
I did that once, delivering a 150 to Quebec. I realized (as I arrived much too early to Riviere du Loup) that I had had a tailwind exceeding 60 MPH. I powered down final approach, for what seemed like a very long time, and flew up to the intersection, where I did about a hovering landing. I must have looked like a Hawker Harrier! Once on the runway, I held the nose down, and kept some power on, not to be blown away. Some kindly people came out, and held the wingtips so I could turn to taxi off the runway. It was not as difficult as I imagined.
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pelmet
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by pelmet »

photofly wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:57 pm It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
Simple...land downwind.
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

pelmet wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm
photofly wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:57 pm It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
Simple...land downwind.
Simple, land into the wind. But I am sure Pelmet will regal us all with airmanship stories and point out all of our shortcomings as he sees fit by cherry picking accident reports.

Pelmet, What’s your motive? Sensational headers?
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pelmet
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by pelmet »

TeePeeCreeper wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:21 pm
pelmet wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm
photofly wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:57 pm It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
Simple...land downwind.
Simple, land into the wind. But I am sure Pelmet will regal us all with airmanship stories and point out all of our shortcomings as he sees fit by cherry picking accident reports.

Pelmet, What’s your motive? Sensational headers?
Thanks for the landing into wind advice. Your years of experience have obviously taught you well(except for your spelling). And your great wisdom is appreciated.

I respectfully change my earlier downwind landing recommendation.....just in case anyone else actually took it seriously.
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by PilotDAR »

I'm appreciate Pelmet's regal efforts to cherry pick accident reports, as I would tire of reading all of them!
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pelmet
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by pelmet »

PilotDAR wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:58 am I'm appreciate Pelmet's regal efforts to cherry pick accident reports, as I would tire of reading all of them!
Why thank you. Actually, a better term would be focusing on the important lessons, sometimes hidden, that could prevent another accident.

And there can be a lot of information in many reports that is really not particularly useful to pilots, especially time-limited ones wanting quick answers on preventing a recurrence. Of course, this thread was just about an ‘interesting’ brief that I came across.

Of course, much of what I have posted is opinion and I welcome constructive criticism, additional advice, or personal in topic experiences. Some like you Mr. DAR are good at that. Some others.....
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by corethatthermal »

turning wasn't an option?
He must have thought that going into a tailwind would exceed the Vne of his craft ! :wink:
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by corethatthermal »

It's an interesting thought experiement to consider how you'd manoeuvre for landing in a headwind that's stronger than your airspeed at touchdown.
If at all possible, AVOID low level circuits with a high wind in poor weather ! Dangerous! Land straight in . My experience involved about 12 people coming out to the runway to "catch" the Little C-150. We tied it down on the runway with 3 trucks and they put a fuel truck in front ( not a good thing to do! ) After making it through the sandstorm to the terminal bldg with a blown out ceiling, the wing meter was showing gusts to 95 mph.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by C.W.E. »

How did you get yourself into a situation in a light airplane when the winds were gusting to 95 mph????
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Re: Strong headwinds cause crash?

Post by Aviatard »

C.W.E. wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:09 am How did you get yourself into a situation in a light airplane when the winds were gusting to 95 mph????
Unless ...
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