New North Star Basler Accident (Number 3)

[Illya Kuryakin]

Freight is great. Can always go tmrw. Been involved with ops I wouldn't touch today. DC3s on skis. Some very nasty WX. Inadequately maintained equipment. No GPS. Not many NDBs. Never saw 3 prangs in that time period. Something is very wrong here. It's 2019. Pushing not required. Great machines. Experience levels? Some truth here. No excuse to be off course on an approach. Not with today's toys. Minimums are a hard number. C'mon guys. Clean it up.
Illya

[Mick G]

Freight is great. Can always go tmrw. Been involved with ops I wouldn't touch today. DC3s on skis. Some very nasty WX. Inadequately maintained equipment. No GPS. Not many NDBs. Never saw 3 prangs in that time period. Something is very wrong here. It's 2019. Pushing not required. Great machines. Experience levels? Some truth here. No excuse to be off course on an approach. Not with today's toys. Minimums are a hard number. C'mon guys. Clean it up.
Illya

Inexperience is the elephant in the room. Unfortunately, this is likely going to continue to get worse and worse as we deal with serious pilot shortages.

[digits_]

How experienced were the crews of the different accidents?

[2R]

Any pictures ?

Cracking the Davinci Code was easier than getting Notams regarding when the Mexican ILS being unservicable at some of these remote locations .

Three aircraft went missed from published approaches in that area about the same time , so weather was not nice at that time .

[Maynard]

Heard the same skipper on the YFH crash as this one. Doesn’t sound like he was inexperienced

[tigerCT]

I heard one went missed at Sachigo about 30 mins before the crash, then one got in 45 mins after the crash. Sounded like WX was close to mins. Decent amount of ice. Probably just saw runway too late and tried to “circle”

[Illya Kuryakin]

AC was seen circling overhead. Guy I talked to said “it was really low, and misty” verbatim. Pushing weather seems to be the inescapable truth on this one.
Don’t, as an industry, ever think we’ll learn.
Illya

[goingnowherefast]

Most (99%) of us know exactly what to do at minimums (or any other established procedure). It's the dumb 1% who will continue to screw around and crash airplanes without learning.

[2112]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. These guys are going to kill someone it's a matter of time and nothing else. Lets hope the regulator wakes up before its too late.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?
Flew over the sight yesterday. About 300 meters south of the threshold for 08? Headed 80 or so degrees to the south. Nowhere near lined up. Freight can wait.
Illya

[Victory]

If they weren't aligned with the runway maybe airframe icing and loss of control were a factor again.

[C-GGGQ]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?
Flew over the sight yesterday. About 300 meters south of the threshold for 08? Headed 80 or so degrees to the south. Nowhere near lined up. Freight can wait.
Illya

Just put AdGuard on my iPhone. All ads gone now

[digits_]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?

Not just you. Long loading times and way too much battery and data usage as well. It is becoming expensive to use this website.

[youhavecontrol]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?

Not just you. Long loading times and way too much battery and data usage as well. It is becoming expensive to use this website.

Yeah it was bearable before but now my phone screen jumps around as the ads load and i often end up pressing an add instead of what I wanted. It's getting crazy annoying. Gonna get an add blocker for my phone finally. This website is by far the worst I've ever seen for adds.

[Old fella]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?

Not just you. Long loading times and way too much battery and data usage as well. It is becoming expensive to use this website.

I run Ad Blocker Pro which loads through Safari on my IPad and works great as I don’t get those annoying ads on this site. I use Safari all the time from the iPad and blocks ads and unwanted info from other sites as well.

[bald seagull]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?

Not just you. Long loading times and way too much battery and data usage as well. It is becoming expensive to use this website.

I run Ad Blocker Pro which loads through Safari on my IPad and works great as I don’t get those annoying ads on this site. I use Safari all the time from the iPad and blocks ads and unwanted info from other sites as well.

What does any of this have to do with the Basler accident??

[Mick G]

Its what happened on the flight deck.....they were inundated with this pop up advertising when they lost situational awarness and put her in the trees.

[Illya Kuryakin]

If they weren't aligned with the runway maybe airframe icing and loss of control were a factor again.

Nope. Just hit the ground while wandering around trying to orientate themselves. Tops weren't high, and an RB67 can easily handle inflight ice. The other one was surface contamination picked up before takeoff. The DC3 wing is perhaps the most unforgiving in the industry for this type of contamination.
Illya

[Jean-Pierre]

Are these aircraft GPS equip? How can they be 300m off course?

[Illya Kuryakin]

Are these aircraft GPS equip? How can they be 300m off course?

Because they weren't doing an approach. They were trying to land looking out the window? Wasn't there.
Illya

[valleyboy]

The other one was surface contamination picked up before takeoff.

That was never confirmed, NTSB came up with that because they could not explain it. No proof of contamination was found. I still believe there was another cause.

The Basler conversion has some ugly characteristics. It will carry a shit load of ice but even clean does not have great handling characteristics for circling loaded. It is very easy to end up with an aft C of G when carrying groceries and general freight. Thus adds to handing issues. Add a little ice and the issues just keep getting worse. If anything comes out of this, a lesson to all, CIRCLING is bad and likely the most dangerous maneuver commercial aircraft ever do. It's outdated with the introduction of GPS and no need to circle in IMC A VFR circuit is not the same.

[Dry Guy]

I don't think the TSB did an investigation of that takeoff crash. Has anyone heard if they are going to be investigating this one?

[yhz41]

Is it just me, or do the ads that pop up between every post make this site almost unusable?

Not just you. Long loading times and way too much battery and data usage as well. It is becoming expensive to use this website.

I run Ad Blocker Pro which loads through Safari on my IPad and works great as I don’t get those annoying ads on this site. I use Safari all the time from the iPad and blocks ads and unwanted info from other sites as well.

While we're on the subject, anyone know the name of a good ad blocker for android? This website is unbearable.

[iflyforpie]

Circling approaches are quickly becoming extinct. The last couple revisions of the CAP and RCAP have removed almost all of them. We’re running out of places to do them for PPC purposes.

[mbav8r]

https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/products-an ... oke-EN.pdf
NOTICE OF CHANGE
Revoke the Lines of circling minima on instrument approach procedures National
NAV CANADA, the country's provider of civil air navigation services, conducted an assessment of the Circling Minima for Instrument Approach Procedures (IAPs) at the 4 Major International Airports and at 11 International Commercial Flight Aerodromes. Additionally, the circling procedures were assessed at other airports based on the criteria below.
The assessment concluded that circling approaches are not flown by most customers who prefer to fly straight-in Area Navigation (RNAV) approaches. The Transportation Safety Board has indicated that unstable approaches including step downs and circling continue to contribute to incidents and accidents