Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

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7ECA
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by 7ECA »

So the theoretical scenario is, you wander out to what ever aeroplane you are going to fly and do a walk around/DI what ever you want to call it. You find no faults, no snags, no issues, etc. You then, for what ever reason, wander away from the aeroplane for some amount of time.

In said amount of time away from the aeroplane, something occurs. Gremlins, flying baggage carts, aliens, tow bar bandit, what the F-ever.

Walking back to the aeroplane, pelmet is advocating that you do an "abbreviated" walk around to re-check everything to make sure nothing has happened. Just, in, case.

How about, as you walk back to the aeroplane you look at it as you approach? So you notice, things. Like that a wing has been chopped off by an errant 152, or the tow bar bandit installed the bar, etc. There's no need for an additional walk around, just a little situational awareness as you walk back to the aeroplane...
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

7ECA wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:50 pm So the theoretical scenario is, you wander out to what ever aeroplane you are going to fly and do a walk around/DI what ever you want to call it. You find no faults, no snags, no issues, etc. You then, for what ever reason, wander away from the aeroplane for some amount of time.

In said amount of time away from the aeroplane, something occurs. Gremlins, flying baggage carts, aliens, tow bar bandit, what the F-ever.

Walking back to the aeroplane, pelmet is advocating that you do an "abbreviated" walk around to re-check everything to make sure nothing has happened. Just, in, case.

How about, as you walk back to the aeroplane you look at it as you approach? So you notice, things. Like that a wing has been chopped off by an errant 152, or the tow bar bandit installed the bar, etc. There's no need for an additional walk around, just a little situational awareness as you walk back to the aeroplane...
Thanks,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Readers can decide for themselves. Your situational awareness statement in terms of looking at the aircraft as you walk back certainly makes sense. I simply suggest that the situational awareness that you suggest be expanded by about 30 seconds by simply walking around the aircraft looking at items I mentioned. The only one that I mentioned that actually could involve touching anything is the oil cap and usually I just think about it and ask myself if I am 100% sure that it was put back on properly when I did the walkaround and no oil was added. So 30 brief seconds, I think it is worth it, others don't. Decide for yourself.

I will post any other examples of related incidents that I come across.

Until then...safe flying.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by jakeandelwood »

7ECA wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:50 pm So the theoretical scenario is, you wander out to what ever aeroplane you are going to fly and do a walk around/DI what ever you want to call it. You find no faults, no snags, no issues, etc. You then, for what ever reason, wander away from the aeroplane for some amount of time.

In said amount of time away from the aeroplane, something occurs. Gremlins, flying baggage carts, aliens, tow bar bandit, what the F-ever.

Walking back to the aeroplane, pelmet is advocating that you do an "abbreviated" walk around to re-check everything to make sure nothing has happened. Just, in, case.

How about, as you walk back to the aeroplane you look at it as you approach? So you notice, things. Like that a wing has been chopped off by an errant 152, or the tow bar bandit installed the bar, etc. There's no need for an additional walk around, just a little situational awareness as you walk back to the aeroplane...
Your last sentence just described it, a quick little check before you jump in, you might notice something. I don't think pelmet is actually saying you have to actually walk around the plane.
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

I am recommending ‘walking around’ around the airplane to double check the items I mentioned but not another pre-flight. Just a 30 second thing.

Of course, if the pre-flight check was the last thing you did and you just, you might decide not to. But it is frequently the first thing you do followed by other stuff.

I just tend to do a 360 check anyways to keep it as habit. Just like the final check prior to taking the runway.

30 seconds.

It might save your life.
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valleyboy
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by valleyboy »

Really, what is a "walk around"? Is it the flying club /school aircraft over haul or is it continuous looking and assessing each time you approach the aircraft. I found very early in my career that "traditional" walk arounds are mostly a waist of time and for several months of the year you got very wet. In my many years of flying I found very little in walk arounds and usually just checked for holes, flat oleos and tyres and oil and fuel and of course doors and hatches. Yes spoiled by flight engineers but always looking during the glory walk so what I'm saying paying continues attention is far better to me than any walk around. If it ain't bleeding or flat you are good to go.
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flyingnorm
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by flyingnorm »

pelmet wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:13 am I am recommending ‘walking around’ around the airplane to double check the items I mentioned but not another pre-flight. Just a 30 second thing.

Of course, if the pre-flight check was the last thing you did and you just, you might decide not to. But it is frequently the first thing you do followed by other stuff.

I just tend to do a 360 check anyways to keep it as habit. Just like the final check prior to taking the runway.

30 seconds.

It might save your life.
Last thing before walking up the airstair should be a walk around the aeroplane. Only exception is when another responsible crew member has been delegated that responsibility. Open baggage doors, fuel and other service equipment, tail stands, etc. All more likely to damage an aircraft than midairs or catostrophic equipment failures.
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

Nice little coincidence I just came across....

One of the world's best aerobatic pilots being interviewed by a former leader of the Thunderbirds on the idea of a final check of critical items just before taking the runway. Start at 22:00 of episode #6 in the 'There I Was' podcast section(takes about three clicks to get there)....

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts

or take your safety advice from a rookie pilot's opinion on such a check. It's up to you.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:07 pm Here's a thought PELMET:

You can neither checklist every aspect of common sense, nor overall situational awareness. As mentioned, sometimes, someone might simply be too tired, too sick, too drunk, too high, or too distracted to fly.

And another CHECKLIST isn't likely to be the best solution.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:10 am I'm slightly bored, so will post this morning's checklist:

Coffee start Button: DEPRESS
Toaster ENGAGE
Coffee: POUR
Cream: AS DESIRED
Toast: REMOVE
Jam: APPLY
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rookiepilot
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by rookiepilot »

pelmet wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:07 am Nice little coincidence I just came across....

One of the world's best aerobatic pilots being interviewed by a former leader of the Thunderbirds on the idea of a final check of critical items just before taking the runway. Start at 22:00 of episode #6 in the 'There I Was' podcast section(takes about three clicks to get there)....

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts

or take your safety advice from a rookie pilot's opinion on such a check. It's up to you.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:07 pm Here's a thought PELMET:

You can neither checklist every aspect of common sense, nor overall situational awareness. As mentioned, sometimes, someone might simply be too tired, too sick, too drunk, too high, or too distracted to fly.

And another CHECKLIST isn't likely to be the best solution.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:10 am I'm slightly bored, so will post this morning's checklist:

Coffee start Button: DEPRESS
Toaster ENGAGE
Coffee: POUR
Cream: AS DESIRED
Toast: REMOVE
Jam: APPLY
Dr Pelmet, forget taking your med's today?

There's a checklist for that.....
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:26 am
pelmet wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:07 am Nice little coincidence I just came across....

One of the world's best aerobatic pilots being interviewed by a former leader of the Thunderbirds on the idea of a final check of critical items just before taking the runway. Start at 22:00 of episode #6 in the 'There I Was' podcast section(takes about three clicks to get there)....

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts

or take your safety advice from a rookie pilot's opinion on such a check. It's up to you.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:07 pm Here's a thought PELMET:

You can neither checklist every aspect of common sense, nor overall situational awareness. As mentioned, sometimes, someone might simply be too tired, too sick, too drunk, too high, or too distracted to fly.

And another CHECKLIST isn't likely to be the best solution.
rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:10 am I'm slightly bored, so will post this morning's checklist:

Coffee start Button: DEPRESS
Toaster ENGAGE
Coffee: POUR
Cream: AS DESIRED
Toast: REMOVE
Jam: APPLY
Dr Pelmet, forget taking your med's today?

There's a checklist for that.....
Once again...you can see the quality of the experience/advice you will get.

Beware of who you take your advice from.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by rookiepilot »

pelmet wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:06 am
rookiepilot wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:26 am
pelmet wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:07 am Nice little coincidence I just came across....

One of the world's best aerobatic pilots being interviewed by a former leader of the Thunderbirds on the idea of a final check of critical items just before taking the runway. Start at 22:00 of episode #6 in the 'There I Was' podcast section(takes about three clicks to get there)....

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts

or take your safety advice from a rookie pilot's opinion on such a check. It's up to you.



Dr Pelmet, forget taking your med's today?

There's a checklist for that.....
Once again...you can see the quality of the experience/advice you will get.

Beware of who you take your advice from.

Oh, that's so true.

And on medical issues more than anything, like listening to trolls tell us to ignore the best medical professionals out there during a difficult time where people are dying.....Pelmet tells us to ignore that, and make up our own rules, cause its too inconvenient to have lives disrupted for a few weeks......more important than lives.......

Stick to your walk around checklists, my friend.

And take your meds.
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am
pelmet wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:06 am
rookiepilot wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:26 am

Dr Pelmet, forget taking your med's today?

There's a checklist for that.....
Once again...you can see the quality of the experience/advice you will get.

Beware of who you take your advice from.

Oh, that's so true.

And on medical issues more than anything, like listening to trolls tell us to ignore the best medical professionals out there during a difficult time where people are dying.....Pelmet tells us to ignore that, and make up our own rules, cause its too inconvenient to have lives disrupted for a few weeks......more important than lives.......

Stick to your walk around checklists, my friend.

And take your meds.
Once again for the newbies...you can see how dangerous it can be to listen to certain pilots. You will have to learn who is dangerous in their knowledge....

Meanwhile, here is another accident that could have been avoided if 30 short seconds had been taken just prior to going up the stairs and into the cockpit.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... s-citation

I still remember flying an old twin turboprop with a belly pod. I had a total of 12 baggage door latches(on two belly doors and two nose baggage doors) that I always double checked just prior to climbing the steps into the cabin and closing the passenger door.
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goldeneagle
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by goldeneagle »

flyingnorm wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:41 am Last thing before walking up the airstair should be a walk around the aeroplane.
Go look at the original post. It's about a single engine Cessna. No airstair, and no wings blocking your view of everything while walking to the pilots door. Nose wheel in plain sight as you approach the door to get in. And yet the towbar still attached wasn't noticed. We aren't discussing a large airplane where such things are out of sight, it's a single engine cessna where the nosewheel is in plain sight while walking up to the airplane to get in.

And yet this thread goes on and on.

I'm beginning to think the moniker 'pelmet' is one used by site ownership simply to get more folks riled up and trigger more ad views. Others have had lifetime bans applied for far less, yet this moniker runs on and on and on with blathering drivel and mods just look the other way.
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pelmet
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Re: Pilot leaves towbar on runway??

Post by pelmet »

goldeneagle wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:19 am
flyingnorm wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:41 am Last thing before walking up the airstair should be a walk around the aeroplane.
Go look at the original post. It's about a single engine Cessna. No airstair, and no wings blocking your view of everything while walking to the pilots door. Nose wheel in plain sight as you approach the door to get in. And yet the towbar still attached wasn't noticed. We aren't discussing a large airplane where such things are out of sight, it's a single engine cessna where the nosewheel is in plain sight while walking up to the airplane to get in.

And yet this thread goes on and on.

I'm beginning to think the moniker 'pelmet' is one used by site ownership simply to get more folks riled up and trigger more ad views. Others have had lifetime bans applied for far less, yet this moniker runs on and on and on with blathering drivel and mods just look the other way.
One would think that someone with as much posting experience as you would finally be aware that thread subjects frequently change(sometimes a little-sometimes a lot) over the course of the thread. I certainly agree that it is desirable to keep reasonably close to the original subject which it has...what to do to prevent incidents like this.

It seems strange that you are admonishing people and calling for lifetime bans using examples of not staying on subject leading to blathering and riling people up when a quick look at your posts shows the same.

In this thread, some pilots are talking about the equipment in the cockpit of a Beech 1900 operator and why there might not be a GPS in it and you jump in talking about how they better not apply to Air Canada(as if they needed your advice). Of course, no one replied to your useless post.

viewtopic.php?p=1102302#p1102302

If you can't figure out how to block someone then perhaps leave, as you have given me incentive to start some new threads.....just for you.
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