I don't disagree. I appreciate he was a big deal to you, and they sung for him at the Staples center last night, and it's all over the news, so I see it's a big deal to people and the media cycle, and you're right maybe I should keep it to myself.
But someone mentioned in the thread not to talk about the man, talk about the aviation side only, my reply was in response to that. Why? Why can't we talk about the man? No disgust or whatever as you mention. I take it from a more existential viewpoint I suppose, maybe that's hard to follow.
altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:30 pm
I guess Kobe should have just let his chauffeur take the I-5 or whatever. Sure, LA traffic sucks, but it was the weekend... wouldn't have been too bad.
Sorry to hear a fellow pilot has Flown West on the job again. Condolences to the crew's family.
This post doesn't sound like you're very impressed with him... More so you sound disgusted by the fact that "he could've taken his chauffeur" and this could've all been avoided.
Maybe the pilot shouldn't have been flying in near IMC/marginal VMC, and all of this could've been avoided. Just saying. I am not going to pretend like I have a clue what happened, but judging by what the prevailing weather was at the time, it doesn't look good on the pilots end
Yet you're only giving condolences to the crew's family and diminishing everyone else on bored (forget the celebrity who was on there)
I'm writing this to point out the fact that your tone in the post comes off as very sour and disgusted... I'm sure that's what some other readers thought as well.
Like I said, I do get why you feel the way you do, but pointing it out in the tone you did doesn't make it sound good, and I personally was annoyed with the tone.
But anyways, let's move past that
I didn't say I was disgusted. Just stating a fact. Instead of firing up the chopper to get across the city he clearly should have drove in poor weather or planned better. Maybe gone up the night before.
As I just stated, based on early reports there wasn't anyone else on that machine. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, outpour of support, grief, songs, tributes... in fact there were other people, only one I knew of was the pilot at the time of that post because the rest wasn't being reported. Turns out a whole family was on there too.
I'm not sour or disgusted, as I said it didn't affect me. But I'm disappointed in the reporting and the ignoring of the regular people affected by tragedy.
TMZ broke the story... so maybe that says it all right there.
Lol, whatever. I was going to write a lengthy reply but there's no point. Feel and believe what you'd like.
It's a tragic outcome no matter who was on board, just like any other crash and my condolences go out to all who perished and their families. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a CFIT accident
If the flight data is accurate, perhaps he saw a hole to get above the fog, but somehow got disoriented and got into a stall/spin into terrain? Following the highway, then a left turn climbing rapidly then a rapid descent into terrain.
I'm assuming the pilot and aircraft were capable of IFR? Could he have filed somewhere and used some MSA or airway or shot some approach to cancel and get into Thousand Oaks? I know nothing about this area just throwing it out there.
2 crew usually in a S76 for IFR. There may be exceptions for private operators though, AP equipped, etc... it wouldn't surprise me if a private machine like this one had all the bells and whistles money not being much of a barrier.
S76 should be equipped with cvr/fdr so we'll get a good picture at the event at some point.
I don't know anything about what happens to a helo at the edge or past it's envelope, but given the reports of a sudden rapid climb followed by a sudden rapid descent, I'm wondering if it was a result of a GPWS reaction gone too far? Or, mechanically something even could have popped on it from being overstressed?
I don't know anything about what happens to a helo at the edge or past it's envelope, but given the reports of a sudden rapid climb followed by a sudden rapid descent, I'm wondering if it was a result of a GPWS reaction gone too far? Or, mechanically something even could have popped on it from being overstressed?
The armchair quarterback in me thinks this is exactly what happened.
A previous pilot of that very machine said it was equipped with EGPWS. And from witness statements on the ground about a helicopter flying around but not seeing it and others saying it was out of control when it broke out and crashed....leads me to think the pilot was lost when his EGPWS went off and he executed an evasive maneuver - only to get disoriented from the rapid pull up and G's and lost control - maybe it rolled on its side or something and he had no altitude to recover.
The S-76 was based on the Blackhawk design and seems to be a very robust machine....I don't know squat about flying it or anything but it seems to me that a sudden pitch up to 1400 ft/min would probably not be enough to break it. Anyone here fly them that could shed some light?
Interesting discussion on the S76 that I saw on youtube, hopefully, someone with experience in this bird can confirm or deny...... Apparently, the S76 has to be travelling at a speed greater than 65 knots for the autopilot to be engaged if you slow down the autopilot kicks off.....
The other point was that once you do slow down to try and capture visual reference again it is impossible to hover in a helo on the instruments. I'm familiar with the escape routes that we fixed wing guys use, what is taught on the rotor side? Is it a 180 degree rate 1 turn and get back to where you came from? Is it a hover and climb or hover and descend?
This accident and the scene look awfully familiar to the helo that went down in marginal conditions last year coming in from the north to buttonville before he got stuck in the soup and lost control.
It seems like a loss of forward motion when in IFR conditions is a recipe for disaster.
I don't know anything about what happens to a helo at the edge or past it's envelope, but given the reports of a sudden rapid climb followed by a sudden rapid descent, I'm wondering if it was a result of a GPWS reaction gone too far? Or, mechanically something even could have popped on it from being overstressed?
The armchair quarterback in me thinks this is exactly what happened.
A previous pilot of that very machine said it was equipped with EGPWS. And from witness statements on the ground about a helicopter flying around but not seeing it and others saying it was out of control when it broke out and crashed....leads me to think the pilot was lost when his EGPWS went off and he executed an evasive maneuver - only to get disoriented from the rapid pull up and G's and lost control - maybe it rolled on its side or something and he had no altitude to recover.
The S-76 was based on the Blackhawk design and seems to be a very robust machine....I don't know squat about flying it or anything but it seems to me that a sudden pitch up to 1400 ft/min would probably not be enough to break it. Anyone here fly them that could shed some light?
The egpws was most likely not on if he was scudrunning it, it is also not hard to overcome, the aircraft wasn't slowed at all during the flight either.
I also don't hold too much faith in the accuracy of those publicly sourced barometric readings. The calibration is never perfect either.
Unless there were multiple instrument failures, I don't see why they wouldn't have gone ifr at that point.
Unless there were multiple instrument failures, I don't see why they wouldn't have gone ifr at that point.
Mmmmmm, interesting. Which makes me think when the pilot was denied initial clearance through the class c control zone when he requested a special vfr transition and then was put in a hold for 15 minutes, you would think that's when they would get the pop-up IFR clearance.
The egpws was most likely not on if he was scudrunning it
Huh....being a fixed wing guy - I never thought of that, but that actually makes sense.
I also don't hold too much faith in the accuracy of those publicly sourced barometric readings. The calibration is never perfect either.
No - That's true - but they are not completely inaccurate either. Point is - there was suddenly a dramatic increase in his rate of climb, followed by an even more dramatic decrease in rate of climb. A sudden 1000, 15000, 2000 ft per min climb is not a normal situation from relatively level flight unless your suddenly trying to avoid something - or maybe your flying some high performance military machine.
Unless there were multiple instrument failures, I don't see why they wouldn't have gone ifr at that point.
Mmmmmm, interesting. Which makes me think when the pilot was denied initial clearance through the class c control zone when he requested a special vfr transition and then was put in a hold for 15 minutes, you would think that's when they would get the pop-up IFR clearance.
K
He didn't want IFR because he wouldn't have been able to land at the sports facility.
They were holding outside of the zone for other traffic, including a missed approach and transitioned just fine.
He cut across van nuys to pick up the highway, this was straight up scudrunning and the pilot made a terrible choice to continue.
I'd like to see the pilot record, that may shed some more light on the pilots ifr experience.
Unless there were multiple instrument failures, I don't see why they wouldn't have gone ifr at that point.
Mmmmmm, interesting. Which makes me think when the pilot was denied initial clearance through the class c control zone when he requested a special vfr transition and then was put in a hold for 15 minutes, you would think that's when they would get the pop-up IFR clearance.
K
He didn't want IFR because he wouldn't have been able to land at the sports facility.
They were holding outside of the zone for other traffic, including a missed approach and transitioned just fine.
He cut across van nuys to pick up the highway, this was straight up scudrunning and the pilot made a terrible choice to continue.
I'd like to see the pilot record, that may shed some more light on the pilots ifr experience.
There must have been alot of pressure to get to the sports facility instead of getting a clearance and climbing, doing an approach to Van Nuys and calling a limo...
As we all know , or most do . flying marginal vfr is very hard .
looking at very localized weather 2 1/2 mile and 1400 isnt terrible by any stretch in a helicopter.
But in a S76 which is actually a IFR platform with limited visibility for pilot outside reference marginal VFR would be very challenging .
From reports and local weather , my guess is he entered cloud /fog to possibly climb above it and lost it .... but really what do i Know .
Very sad for all effected , the flight should never taken place - rip
