RCAF Cyclone Down

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Gannet167
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RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Gannet167 »

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W5
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by W5 »

Scramble Magazine

Breaking: RCAF Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone crash reported

A Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CH-148 Cyclone helicopter has gone down in the Ionian Sea west of the island Kefalonia in the Italian Flight Information Region on Wednesday 29 April 2020. This is between Greece and Italy.

A CH-148 was onboard the Halifax-class HMCS Fredericton (FH 337), in the Mediterranean as part of Standing NATO Maritime Group Two (SNMG2). The SNMG2 consists of four to six destroyers and frigates. Its role is to provide NATO with an immediate operational response capability. CH-148 148822 (c/n 92-5022) of 12 Wing was reported onboard HMCS Fredericton in January and in March 2020.

NATO search and rescue teams are searching the sea area west of Kefalonia island at this moment. There were six people on board and their fate remains unknown. Updates to follow when we have more news.
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Walker
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Walker »

Edit:

Family is being told hard impact with the sea at night. No signs of the wreckage with the exception of a beacon which is designed to detach/jettison.

This hits too close to home.
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Last edited by Walker on Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
rigpiggy
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by rigpiggy »

one body found so far. My condolences Pig
https://fighterjetsworld.com/latest-new ... aly/21497/
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Old fella
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Old fella »

So very sad to hear, CTV has identified one casualty from down our way, suspect there will be more. We are still reeling from the devastating shooting other week and now this. Rough times in the Maritimes for sure and certain.
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

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Daniel Cooper
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Daniel Cooper »

I hope it wasn't the main gearbox. The government removed the requirement from Sikorsky to supply the CH-148 with a 30-minute run-dry main gearbox.
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AirFrame
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by AirFrame »

I met Captain Hagen once when he came to my office to visit his brother (who was a co-worker of mine). The two of them (and I think their sister as well) were all in the RCAF, and were a very close family. I'm sure they're reeling from this.

Condolences to all the families involved.
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Walker
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Walker »

AirFrame wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:11 am I met Captain Hagen once when he came to my office to visit his brother (who was a co-worker of mine). The two of them (and I think their sister as well) were all in the RCAF, and were a very close family. I'm sure they're reeling from this.

Condolences to all the families involved.
This is beyond devastating... Kevin was transferring to 443 this summer after this deployment (most of the family are now in Vic/Saltspring).


From CAFINUS: https://twitter.com/CAFinUS/status/1256242636362399746
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karmutzen
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by karmutzen »

Military operation, not civilian public transport or utility work, meaning the prime objective is the mission, not safety. Loss of life in a military environment, while still tragic, is part of what you sign up for. Sounds like a night operation CFIT. Cyclone is a highly modified fly-by-wire S92, if cause is ever made public it would be an interesting read. Part of the software programming of “autopilot” systems is to save the aircraft from pilot error. Like drone tech that returns and lands. We also lost a very capable Cormorant off Nova Scotia years ago due to some control confusion.
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Eric Janson
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Eric Janson »

According to the news websites contact was lost at 6:52pm.

That's still daytime in that region - not sure why this was being reported as happening at night.
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Heliian
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Heliian »

karmutzen wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:06 pm Military operation, not civilian public transport or utility work, meaning the prime objective is the mission, not safety. Loss of life in a military environment, while still tragic, is part of what you sign up for. Sounds like a night operation CFIT. Cyclone is a highly modified fly-by-wire S92, if cause is ever made public it would be an interesting read. Part of the software programming of “autopilot” systems is to save the aircraft from pilot error. Like drone tech that returns and lands. We also lost a very capable Cormorant off Nova Scotia years ago due to some control confusion.
You couldn't be more wrong, this wasn't a wartime accident, it was training, they are extremely safe. The aircraft was reported missing @ 18:52, that is still daylight.

The cormorant accident was due to night/black hole conditions, the only confusion was in the cockpit.

If they find the cause, it will for sure be made public.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by AuxBatOn »

There is still an inherent higher operational risk to military operations. The Acceptable Level of Safety definition is different than you’d find in civil aviation and some of the operational maneuvers military aircraft do routinely would not be acceptable from civilian operators.
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lownslow
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by lownslow »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 6:08 am There is still an inherent higher operational risk to military operations. The Acceptable Level of Safety definition is different than you’d find in civil aviation and some of the operational maneuvers military aircraft do routinely would not be acceptable from civilian operators.
I would have thought that in peacetime you guys would have been enormous pansies with regards to safety. I know I would. After all, your stuff is expensive. Is it not?
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AuxBatOn
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by AuxBatOn »

We follow our rules and our airworthiness standards. Even in peacetime, the mission profiles we conduct are riskier than what a civilian operator could do. We adhere to all our safety standards. But you have to train like you fight as much as possible.

Like I said however, our Acceptable Level of Safety is different.
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by AirFrame »

Eric Janson wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:23 am According to the news websites contact was lost at 6:52pm
I think this is the first time i've seen an actual time reported. I have seen a number of reports referring to it as an "evening" flight, which would be correct. I think other reporters are embellishing that and taking "evening" to mean "night". Incorrectly, at this time of year.
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by 7ECA »

According to articles, the five remaining crew are presumed as deceased and the rescue has become a recovery operation.
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boeingboy
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by boeingboy »

They have reported the FDr and CVR were recovered. I didn't think military aircraft had FDR and CVR's. Usually when I've read the odd report - they never mention these, admittedly They are mostly Hornet reports that I see.

Do most military aircraft have these recorders?

What about the high performance stuff like the Hawks and Hornets?
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Walker
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by Walker »

boeingboy wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 5:30 pm They have reported the FDr and CVR were recovered. I didn't think military aircraft had FDR and CVR's. Usually when I've read the odd report - they never mention these, admittedly They are mostly Hornet reports that I see.

Do most military aircraft have these recorders?

What about the high performance stuff like the Hawks and Hornets?
Cant say for other AC but for the Cyclone the breakaway beacon has a data unit which includes FDR and CVR clones.
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Re: RCAF Cyclone Down

Post by AirFrame »

Walker wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 7:46 amCant say for other AC but for the Cyclone the breakaway beacon has a data unit which includes FDR and CVR clones.
Thanks for that... I was wondering how they recovered them if they hadn't recovered the aircraft as well. This makes a lot more sense now.
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