Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

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J31
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Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by J31 »

A passenger plane with around 100 people on board crashed in a crowded neighbourhood on the edge of the international airport near Pakistan's southern port city of Karachi on Friday after what appeared to be an engine failure during landing.

Mayor Wasim Akhtar said at least five or six houses were destroyed in the crash of the domestic flight operated by Pakistan International Airlines.

He said all those on board died, but two civil aviation officials later said that at least two people survived the crash. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief media.

Local media reported that three people sitting in the front row of the aircraft survived and aired footage of a man on a stretcher they identified as Zafar Masood, the head of the Bank of Punjab. They also reported that at least 11 bodies were recovered from the crash site and six people were injured. It was not immediately clear if the casualties were passengers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pakistan- ... -1.5579961
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BigQ
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by BigQ »

AvHerald has pictures from a spotter showing engine scrape damage right after a go-around. Supposedly went around after a "gear issue", then lost both engines on the downwind

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Jean-Pierre »

Possible they ran out of fuel while dealing with the gear issue.
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airway
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by airway »

BigQ wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:55 am
AvHerald has pictures from a spotter showing engine scrape damage right after a go-around. Supposedly went around after a "gear issue", then lost both engines on the downwind

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0
Did the pilot ever mention a gear issue? I think only ATC mentioned it maybe because he saw the aircraft do a rejected landing with the gear up (or put the gear up too soon) and scraping the engines? There is some question of being too high on the first approach, and there was the sound of the master warning in the background when he replied to the landing clearance.

Also the RAT was deployed, apparently right after the overshoot. What are the parameters for an A320 RAT deployment?
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boeingboy
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by boeingboy »

Also the RAT was deployed, apparently right after the overshoot. What are the parameters for an A320 RAT deployment?
Automatic RAT deployment occurs when the following happen:
1) Loss of AC bus1
2) Loss of AC bus2
3) airspeed greater than 100kts

You can manually deploy it through 2 different pushbuttons on the overhead panel. One will give you Blue system pressure only - the other will give you Blue sys pressure and connect the emergency generator. It should be noted that when the emergency generator is connected - it will disconnect after landing gear (nose gear) extension, at which point your down to batteries - unless you managed to start the APU.

I suspect they had an issue and executed a late go around, then someone selected gear up before they established a positive rate. They scraped the runway and damaged both IDG's or lines/gearboxes and lost all the oil on the downwind.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Jack Klumpus »

Pakistani CAA issued a video showing marks of where the engines scrapped the runway. 4,500-5,500ft down the runway.
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ahkhamza
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by ahkhamza »

The aircraft landed on the runway without the landing gear down. Both the engine cowlings came in contact with the runway and the pilot executed a successful go around. At around 3000 get they lost both engines and the attempt to come back for the second landing failed. Evidence so far indicates that the pilots forgot to lower the landing gear. We will only find out the truth after the investigation report comes out.
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2R
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by 2R »

Wow, the next guy that whines at me when I say "short final three green " is gonna get a smile :)
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Mick G
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Mick G »

Wow, I can't recall a Large Passenger Airliner ever forgetting to put down gear in recent memory. Does anybody know, has this ever happened before historically on similar sized aircraft?

I'm thinking if they committed to the belly landing once they realized, more people might have survived. Such a terrible and preventable trajedy.
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Bavros
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Bavros »

ahkhamza wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:00 am
The aircraft landed on the runway without the landing gear down. Both the engine cowlings came in contact with the runway and the pilot executed a successful go around. At around 3000 get they lost both engines and the attempt to come back for the second landing failed. Evidence so far indicates that the pilots forgot to lower the landing gear. We will only find out the truth after the investigation report comes out.
Premature raising of flaps and gear during go-around seems more likely.
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Caterpillar »

Is there any horn protection for the gear in the 320?
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by ZBBYLW »

Mick G wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:04 am
Wow, I can't recall a Large Passenger Airliner ever forgetting to put down gear in recent memory. Does anybody know, has this ever happened before historically on similar sized aircraft?

I'm thinking if they committed to the belly landing once they realized, more people might have survived. Such a terrible and preventable trajedy.
It's actually happened to the same airline before, 747-200. Obviously didn't have the same technology to remind the pilots than a 320.

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19860204-0
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by ZBBYLW »

Caterpillar wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:14 am
Is there any horn protection for the gear in the 320?
Master Warning (unfortunately same ding, ding, ding, ding, ding as the flap Overspeed - though it should have been on the ECAM if they read it).

GPWS - Too low gear, pretty loud and hard to miss.

Pilots SA - if they were trying to dive bomb onto profile, one wonders why they didn't have the singles most effective piece of drag out earlier....
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Eric Janson
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Eric Janson »

ZBBYLW wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:27 am
Caterpillar wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:14 am
Is there any horn protection for the gear in the 320?
Master Warning (unfortunately same ding, ding, ding, ding, ding as the flap Overspeed - though it should have been on the ECAM if they read it).

GPWS - Too low gear, pretty loud and hard to miss.

Pilots SA - if they were trying to dive bomb onto profile, one wonders why they didn't have the singles most effective piece of drag out earlier....
Not to mention the red arrow by the gear handle - the ECAM message - and the 6 Red Triangles on the Wheel page. All directly in the crew field of vision.

To still land gear up with all of this is almost beyond belief. The report should be interesting - can't help but wonder what was going on in that Cockpit?
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boeingboy
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by boeingboy »

can't help but wonder what was going on in that Cockpit?
The only thing I can think of is the fact they were coming in at Mach 1 and got so fixated on getting it on the runway that they got tunnel vision.

But yea - it will be an interesting read for sure.
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Ki-ll »

boeingboy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:35 pm

The only thing I can think of is the fact they were coming in at Mach 1 and got so fixated on getting it on the runway that they got tunnel vision.

But yea - it will be an interesting read for sure.
It sounds like that’s exactly what happened. ATC recording has them at 3000 at 5nm final and when they read back the landing clearance the CRC was sounding its alarm.
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boeingboy
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by boeingboy »

Actually - it was 3500' 5 miles out

If they were at 3500' and 5nm, based on normal approach speeds they were around 2 minutes from touchdown and would have needed a descent rate of around 1700 fpm which is double what would normally be expected and well outside stabilised criteria. First runway contact at 4500' from threshold, then 5500' and again at 7000' so they were hot and floated.

They also mentioned they were comfortable??...with what??
and that they were established on the ILS - I don't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

One poster on PPRUNE grapghed the data from flightradar24:

"A closer look at the final ten minutes, starting from the transition at FL100. Clearly a steep plunge (4 ~ 6,000+ fpm) to capture the ILS gs. At no point did this resemble a stable approach

P.S. Exactly four minutes from FL100 to "touchdown", 90 secs from FL80 to 2,000' (= 4,000 fpm)."
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Eric Janson
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Eric Janson »

Ki-ll wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:43 pm
boeingboy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:35 pm

The only thing I can think of is the fact they were coming in at Mach 1 and got so fixated on getting it on the runway that they got tunnel vision.

But yea - it will be an interesting read for sure.
It sounds like that’s exactly what happened. ATC recording has them at 3000 at 5nm final and when they read back the landing clearance the CRC was sounding its alarm.
Strange that the CRC was going off - what makes most sense is that the CRC was for an overspeed with flaps selected at too high a speed. Extremely distracting if not cancelled.

Not entirely clear but it seems ATC offered them a 360 as well. They probably would have needed 2 360's to get things under control.

If it's all going wrong then it's time to stop what you're doing - get the aircraft to a safe altitude and come up with a new plan.
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Mick G
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Mick G »

ZBBYLW wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:24 am
Mick G wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:04 am
Wow, I can't recall a Large Passenger Airliner ever forgetting to put down gear in recent memory. Does anybody know, has this ever happened before historically on similar sized aircraft?

I'm thinking if they committed to the belly landing once they realized, more people might have survived. Such a terrible and preventable trajedy.
It's actually happened to the same airline before, 747-200. Obviously didn't have the same technology to remind the pilots than a 320.

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19860204-0
Wouldn't that be something, if it ended up being the same pilot as before.
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Gino Under
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Gino Under »

I’m sure the crew will be crucified in the final Pakistan CAA accident report.
Talk about being behind the aircraft, off profile, and anything but a stable approach! What a gong show!!! The go-around must have been fun to watch but glad I wasn’t there.

How such incompetent pilots ever got their hands on an A320 is unbelievable. Can’t wait to hear that story.
The dirty history and safety record of Pakistan Airlines will prove to be seriously damaging their already sh*t reputation.

Surely, Pakistanis deserve a safe, we’ll trained, and modern airline.

My deepest sympathies to those who’ve unnecessarily lost their loved ones so tragically and so totally unnecessarily.

Tragic.

Gino Under
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Inverted2 »

Likely ripped the oil lines off the bottom of their engines on their touch and go.
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Mick G
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Mick G »

***New Option Just realeased from Airbus this morning*** :rolleyes:

Skidplates will now be offered as-an add-on feature for 3rd world nations. These will be designed to absorb some of the terrain during "off roading"

Too soon? :P :lol:
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Cliff Jumper
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Cliff Jumper »

Reminds me of this one....sort of....

https://bst-tsb.gc.ca/ENG/rapports-repo ... 0h0007.pdf
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Jet Jockey
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Re: Pakistan Airlines crash near Karachi airport May 22 2020

Post by Jet Jockey »

On Pprune in a post they figure at the first touched down point (at the 4500' mark) that his IAS was 210-215 kts.
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