Mud swerves a plane

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pelmet
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Mud swerves a plane

Post by pelmet »

I don't think I have ever landed on a muddy surface. Maybe back in the days of offstrip tundra tire flying but with the little wheels on almost all light aircraft, it seems like something best avoided for a variety of reasons, some to do with safety...

"C-GTBK, a privately registered Piper PA-22-160X, was operating a VFR flight from St. Theresa
Point (CYST), MB to Bloodvein River (CZTA), MB. Upon landing on Runway 18 at CZTA, the
aircraft swerved and contacted rough ground and a runway light. The aircraft sustained substantial
damage to its right wing and empennage. It was reported that there was mud on the runway that may have lead to the aircraft's left brake to
seize on landing."
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valleyboy
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by valleyboy »

you could not of flown in NWO or northern Manitoba - even today still mud hanging around. I can remember taxiing at STP with control locks off on the hawker, same with Sandy back in the day.
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flyingnorm
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by flyingnorm »

pelmet wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:18 pm I don't think I have ever landed on a muddy surface. Maybe back in the days of offstrip tundra tire flying but with the little wheels on almost all light aircraft, it seems like something best avoided for a variety of reasons, some to do with safety...

"C-GTBK, a privately registered Piper PA-22-160X, was operating a VFR flight from St. Theresa
Point (CYST), MB to Bloodvein River (CZTA), MB. Upon landing on Runway 18 at CZTA, the
aircraft swerved and contacted rough ground and a runway light. The aircraft sustained substantial
damage to its right wing and empennage. It was reported that there was mud on the runway that may have lead to the aircraft's left brake to
seize on landing."
If you need to avoid mud, stay close to the aerodromes in cities on the Transcanada Highway. Runways are muddy in a lot of places. Especially in May and June when the frost is coming out of the ground. Can be muddy on a clear warm day.
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sunk
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by sunk »

Think there is more to the story than mud. Plane was just converted to a tail dragger. It has drum brakes that both come on at the same time, when and if they are both working.
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Heliian
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by Heliian »

sunk wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:44 am Think there is more to the story than mud. Plane was just converted to a tail dragger. It has drum brakes that both come on at the same time, when and if they are both working.
Well, if one wheel hit mud while both wheels are equally braked then you will swerve.
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pelmet
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by pelmet »

Heliian wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:14 am
sunk wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:44 am Think there is more to the story than mud. Plane was just converted to a tail dragger. It has drum brakes that both come on at the same time, when and if they are both working.
Well, if one wheel hit mud while both wheels are equally braked then you will swerve.
Or even if not equally braked. Of course sometimes the mud could be not so obvious. Helps to have up to date info prior to arrival....or departure.
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bobcaygeon
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by bobcaygeon »

Bloodvein is an extra sh###y runway for mud even when compared to northern MB and NWO. Lots of stuck planes and I've been surprised more than once. The east shore of Lake WInnipeg is a giant beach
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pdw
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by pdw »

What makes it extra ##ty ?

In one experience, having touched down at the undrained end (touchdown furthest from the aerodrome ) never felt any difference until immediate goaround power needed early in landing roll. An even drag both wheels, but no swerving tendency at that speed. Slowing up adds weight to both main wheels, but probably sometimes unevenly. One carves in muddy, steers it abruptly, even letting go of braking on that digging side ... esp if the opposite wheel rut is more shallow ... on a slippery/grassy braking index.
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pelmet
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by pelmet »

flyingnorm wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:08 pm Runways are muddy in a lot of places. Especially in May and June when the frost is coming out of the ground. Can be muddy on a clear warm day.
pelmet wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:49 am Of course sometimes the mud could be not so obvious. Helps to have up to date info prior to arrival....or departure.
Walking the runway can be a good way to discover hidden hazards such as a hidden muddy area...and the walk can be enjoyable too.

C-FIJW, a Seawind 3000 amateur-built aircraft, about to take off from a private runway
to perform a flight according to visual flight rules in the surroundings of La Sarre (CSR8),
QC. During the take-off roll, the aircraft rolled over a muddy section of the runway which
veered off course and led him into a ditch. The aircraft sustained substantial damage.
The pilot alone on board was not injured. The emergency locator transmitter does not
did not trigger.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
GyvAir
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Re: Mud swerves a plane

Post by GyvAir »

I have this strange urge to take this sequence of words:


"An even drag
both wheels,
but no swerving tendency
at
that speed.
Slowing
up
adds weight
to both main wheels,
but
probably, sometimes, unevenly.

One carves in muddy!
steers it abruptly!
even
letting go
of braking ON THAT DIGGING SIDE ...
esp if
the opposite wheel rut is,
more shallow
...
on a slippery/grassy braking index."


and run them through this app:
https://www.wired.com/2012/11/william-s ... oetry-app/
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