A stop and backtaxi may be better than a stop and go

[pelmet]

Why not taxi back to the threshold, especially if the density altitude is high. I doubt he did the first takeoff from the intersection......

C-FEKY, a privately operated Cessna 150L, was conducting circuits at Cooking Lake (CEZ3), AB.
Following the first successful circuit, the pilot came to a full stop on the runway prior to the first
taxiway, approximately half way down Runway 28. The pilot elected to commence a second take
off from the intersection of RWY 28 and the taxiway, with approximately 1550 feet of runway
remaining. The aircraft became airborne just prior to the end of the runway. During the climb out
the aircraft did not gain enough altitude to clear the trees that were approximately 3250 feet from
the start of the take-off run (approx. 1650 feet from the end of the runway). The wheels contacted
the top of the trees and the aircraft stalled just over the field. The aircraft impacted the wet ground
and flipped over. The pilot was able to get out of the aircraft on his own and was not injured. The
aircraft was substantially damaged.

[porcsord]

Old adage:

Something something runway behind you something something.

[780Pilot]

The rumor is he also did it with Flap 30 on the departure. Forgot to bring up the flaps...

[pelmet]

The rumor is he also did it with Flap 30 on the departure. Forgot to bring up the flaps...

Hmmm.....I was thinking that a 150 could be able to takeoff on the length of runway required but thought that perhaps density altitude was the problem. If it was lots of flaps extended, I wonder if he read this thread starting at the post in the link and continuing on.....

viewtopic.php?p=1102738#p1102738

check your killer items just before you takeoff.

[780Pilot]

Yea it could im sure. That day wasn't all that hot (20) but those trees off the threshold of 10 are pretty big.

[pelmet]

Yea it could im sure. That day wasn't all that hot (20) but those trees off the threshold of 10 are pretty big.

You seem to be knowledgeable about whats going on at the airport. Any info abouyt this incident a couple of weeks earlier.....

"C-GZAY, a Beechcraft A35 Bonanza, was conducting circuits at Cooking Lake, AB (CEZ3) with
only the pilot on board. While executing a final approach and landing, the pilot did not extend the
landing gear, and performed an unintentional gear up landing. The aircraft came to a stop on the
runway. There were no injuries, and there was no fire. The aircraft sustained damage to the
fuselage, wing flaps, propeller and engine exhaust."

[780Pilot]

Yea it could im sure. That day wasn't all that hot (20) but those trees off the threshold of 10 are pretty big.

You seem to be knowledgeable about whats going on at the airport. Any info abouyt this incident a couple of weeks earlier.....

"C-GZAY, a Beechcraft A35 Bonanza, was conducting circuits at Cooking Lake, AB (CEZ3) with
only the pilot on board. While executing a final approach and landing, the pilot did not extend the
landing gear, and performed an unintentional gear up landing. The aircraft came to a stop on the
runway. There were no injuries, and there was no fire. The aircraft sustained damage to the
fuselage, wing flaps, propeller and engine exhaust."

I was holding short of RWY 10 with my student. If he showed me one more good circuit I was gonna send him solo. The plane is owned by two people, one of whom was my social studies teacher in high school. His partner was flying it. Doing touch and goes and on this lap just forgot to extend the gear. Old plane no warning light. I was watching and was thinking of saying something but did not. He then touched down and skidded to the side of the runway. A guy on the taxiway asked if he was ok to which he said "yea I just made a stupid F***ing mistake. Plane is a write off. There are just gonna take the insurance $$ and get something else possibly.

[pelmet]

Thanks,

Any info on the recent Murphy Moose crash.

[780Pilot]

Thanks,

Any info on the recent Murphy Moose crash.

No word what happened yet. However he was real close with my boss and he saw him the morning of. He's really upset about it. I flew with him once about 2 months ago. Real safe guy. Was all about proper procedure and super careful with weather. Quite a shock.

[pelmet]

Thanks for the info. It is nice to have a little extra info which is appreciated. I would suggest in the future...if you see an aircraft on final with the gear up with intentions to land to make a quick but clear transmission about it such as ...."Bonanza, your gear is up'. I'm sure that even for a witness one might hesitate and assume that there must be a good reason but it could save the day. Who knows.....A grateful pilot might just give you a free checkout as a thank you.

[Gannet167]

I was watching and was thinking of saying something but did not. He then touched down and skidded to the side of the runway.

You watched a crash occur that you could've prevented and rather than even try, you sat back and did nothing? If the pilot had been injured or killed? And your student watched you do nothing?

Just. Wow. I can't even begin to understand. That is perhaps the biggest a$shole move I've heard of. I don't like some of my highschool teachers either, but damn. That's cold hearted. Arguably negligent of a professional aviator.

Wtf?

[780Pilot]

I was watching and was thinking of saying something but did not. He then touched down and skidded to the side of the runway.

You watched a crash occur that you could've prevented and rather than even try, you sat back and did nothing? If the pilot had been injured or killed? And your student watched you do nothing?

Just. Wow. I can't even begin to understand. That is perhaps the biggest a$shole move I've heard of. I don't like some of my highschool teachers either, but damn. That's cold hearted. Arguably negligent of a professional aviator.

Wtf?

You are way off. Thats not what was going through my head at all. That teacher is a good friend of mine and I never wish anything bad on him. I thought he was just doing a low approach and not even touching down. I did not think anything of it. There were others holding short who saw it to and said nothing. People assume the pilot is aware what they are doing and regrettably it went the wrong way. If I ever see an approach another time like that, for sure I will say something. When I was "thinking" of saying something is because I was unsure of what he was doing. To say I knew what he was going to to and LET it happen intentionally is insane.

[Gannet167]

Fair enough. That makes more sense.

[780Pilot]

Fair enough. That makes more sense.

Ya I read my wording and saw how you got that. Whoops

[I WAS Pez]

I was watching and was thinking of saying something but did not. He then touched down and skidded to the side of the runway.

You watched a crash occur that you could've prevented and rather than even try, you sat back and did nothing? If the pilot had been injured or killed? And your student watched you do nothing?

Just. Wow. I can't even begin to understand. That is perhaps the biggest a$shole move I've heard of. I don't like some of my highschool teachers either, but damn. That's cold hearted. Arguably negligent of a professional aviator.

Wtf?

You are way off. Thats not what was going through my head at all. That teacher is a good friend of mine and I never wish anything bad on him. I thought he was just doing a low approach and not even touching down. I did not think anything of it. There were others holding short who saw it to and said nothing. People assume the pilot is aware what they are doing and regrettably it went the wrong way. If I ever see an approach another time like that, for sure I will say something. When I was "thinking" of saying something is because I was unsure of what he was doing. To say I knew what he was going to to and LET it happen intentionally is insane.

Yeah, I did that once, warning someone that his gear was up. I was at the approach end of the runway (gliding operation), not in an aircraft. A Glasair was on approach, and it looked like he was planning a low and over or something.... fair bit of flap out, no gear. When it started to look like he might be intending to land, I ran over to where a handheld transceiver was, grabbed it, and just started repeating ''LANDING GEAR, LANDING GEAR, LANDING GEAR". Sure enough, full power and he climbed out. flaps must have come within a few inches of the runway. He didn't come back.

Odd bit was, it all seemed to be in slow motion... not really a conscious decision to act that I recall, just kinda something that had to be done...all just sort of slowed down.

[pelmet]

No gear down with flaps extended seems like a high potential for the gear having been forgotten.

[I WAS Pez]

No gear down with flaps extended seems like a high potential for the gear having been forgotten.

You're right, and that was poorly worded. It looked like he was doing a low and over initially.... as he got closer, it became clear that he had a fair bit of flap out and no landing gear, with what looked closer to an approach speed and looked to be planning to land. This wasn't really clear until he was fairly close.

[complexintentions]

Fair enough. That makes more sense.

Try not to go overboard with your apology for calling the guy, what was it? An "asshole, cold-hearted, negligent"?

Dude was far more gracious about your completely erroneous leap to conclusion than I would have been. Gsus.

[Gannet167]

Fair enough. That makes more sense.

Try not to go overboard with your apology for calling the guy, what was it? An "asshole, cold-hearted, negligent"?

Dude was far more gracious about your completely erroneous leap to conclusion than I would have been. Gsus.

Thanks complexintentions. My "leap" was based on his specific comments (perhaps errantly stated) that he watched a crash occurring and did nothing. "I was watching and was thinking of saying something but did not. He then touched down and skidded to the side of the runway." where did I leap? He literally said, "I was watching" and then said, "thinking of saying something but did not."

I still find it fairly difficult to understand while holding short of the runway it wouldn't be painfully obvious you were witnessing a gear up landing about to occur, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that as he says "This wasn't really clear until he was fairly close."

The poster himself then goes on to admit "You're right, and that was poorly worded." Perhaps accepting that at a first glance, the post reads as if he watched and knowingly chose to do nothing.

So, there was no leaping. It was explicit. He then acknowledged that the post may not read as he intended. I acknowledged that if it wasn't obvious there was about to be a crash, then fair enough, perhaps he wasn't remiss in some way. I'm not apologizing, I'm acknowledging that if the story is different, then fair enough, perhaps it wasn't an asshole move.

Also note, I did not call him an asshole. I said it was an asshole move. Not the individual, the behaviour. Difference. You lept to something there.

I'll stand by my comments. Hypothetical situation: if you as a pilot , especially as a pilot is working under a professional licence (particularly engaged in instructing the next generation of aviators and with a moral duty to set an example), can see a fellow aviator about to have an accident of any magnitude - especially one where an aircraft is written off and people may be injured or killed, and as you watch this sequence of events occurring you have an ability to click the mike and say "Check Gear", and, rather than go to those excruciating lengths to be a decent fellow human, fellow aviator, professional pilot, you sit back and watch the crash (that you could prevent) occur, then I believe that is indeed an asshole move, it is cold hearted, and as a professional in the business I would say you are to some degree negligent. You had a chance to potentially save a life, you had a duty of care, and if you don't do anything to help (particularly at no cost or risk to you), it is negligent.

But 780pilot and I have cleared that up.