Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

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photofly
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by photofly »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:20 am
Yes it is.

Now, destroying evidence is a whole other matter, as is the reasonable expectation of privacy in your workplace. I would agree on everything you said there save for the last point. It is absolutely a fundamental right in Canada.
Don’t be silly. You have the right to privacy in limited areas, including health and “personal” information. Even those rights are subject to a yards long list of exceptions and exclusions. (Don’t ask me how I know, but trust me, I do.)

In what you do at work you no privacy “rights” except what’s in your contract, and what you negotiate. Again, don’t ask me how I know, but trust me, I do.
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

That is essentially what I was trying to say.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by rookiepilot »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:20 am
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:54 am A "mistake" that came within 15 seconds and under 100 feet of killing hundreds of people?
And -- They DIDN'T report. The voice recorder was deleted!

Noted your view, and I disagree.

If that's a real problem with pilots lying, cameras need to go in the cockpits Now.
Data recorders need to record many days Now.

It's a public job with massive responsibility and big bucks and a great lifestyle at the senior airline level. Privacy isn't a right.
Yes it is.

Now, destroying evidence is a whole other matter, as is the reasonable expectation of privacy in your workplace. I would agree on everything you said there save for the last point. It is absolutely a fundamental right in Canada.
Agreed. Should have added "in the workplace -- it isn't a right"
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Re: VIDEO - Aftermath of Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by challenger_nami »

Video Cameras are bringing accountability to many police departments throughout the world.

That is why I personally am in favour of having cameras in the cockpit of any commercially operated for profit aircraft, with exceptions where warranted. Pilots work with lives of people who put their trust in them (passengers) and people on the ground. A video camera in the cockpit will bring a higher level of accountability.

As a pilot in commercial operation, I am there to do a job. I personally don’t have any expectation of privacy, and I have nothing to hide from. I conduct myself as if someone is watching over my shoulder all the time.




photofly wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:31 am
cncpc wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:28 pm Jesus, take me now.
Hold still, I'm on my way.
Good.

@PHOTOFLY: I'm trying to imagine a single tiny new thing that can be learned from this, the worst thing ever to happen ... on the 23rd of October. To this pilot. Not coming up with much.
@photofly, Are you saying there is nothing to learn from this incident?


@MONTADO:
So challenger, by your logic would the WestJet crew in SXM be charged with being negligent? Or do mistakes happen?

I don't hope this pilot is charged, I just hope if a lesson can be learned that this doesn't have to happen again.

My understanding of the law is we don't charge people in accidents for mistakes. If you get in a fender bender with a school bus, but you weren't on your phone and weren't speeding and it was an honest mistake. Just because it was a school but has zero bearing on the accident... And I would not say I hope they charge this asshole because its children on a school bus.

I think we are just misunderstanding each other, my point is the fact it was a school had little bearing on whether charges will happen. The charges would be based on whether errors were made and if they deem the errors were due to negligence.
@Montado, I had no idea about this near miss incident until you mentioned it. I just read the TSB report and learned quite a bit about it.
My question for you: What did the pilots do that in your opnion would constitute negligence in this case?









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goldeneagle
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Re: VIDEO - Aftermath of Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by goldeneagle »

challenger_nami wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:46 pm @photofly, Are you saying there is nothing to learn from this incident?
There are no new ways to damage / crash an airplane. Every one that happens these days, has been tried before. There are no new lessons to be learned, only lessons to be re-taught because folks didn't clue in, or missed the class, last time around.

Heck even here on Avcan in this section, look at the first few pages of threads. How many ways are there to run out of gas ? Does it make a difference what excuse you use for running out of gas, every thread has a different excuse, but all have the same outcome. Aircraft landed in a spot that was not originally planned, and in most cases, incurred damage during landing.

So, no, there is absolutely NOTHING to learn from this incident. If you haven't learned the dangers of empty fuel tanks from the hundreds of prior incidents that came about due to empty fuel tanks, then no, you wont learn anything from this incident either. And if you have learned from past incidents, then this one is not required to reinforce that lesson. So no, there is nothing to learn here.
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Re: VIDEO - Aftermath of Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

goldeneagle wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:16 am There are no new ways to damage / crash an airplane. Every one that happens these days, has been tried before. There are no new lessons to be learned, only lessons to be re-taught because folks didn't clue in, or missed the class, last time around.

Heck even here on Avcan in this section, look at the first few pages of threads. How many ways are there to run out of gas ? Does it make a difference what excuse you use for running out of gas, every thread has a different excuse, but all have the same outcome. Aircraft landed in a spot that was not originally planned, and in most cases, incurred damage during landing.

So, no, there is absolutely NOTHING to learn from this incident. If you haven't learned the dangers of empty fuel tanks from the hundreds of prior incidents that came about due to empty fuel tanks, then no, you wont learn anything from this incident either. And if you have learned from past incidents, then this one is not required to reinforce that lesson. So no, there is nothing to learn here.
I would disagree. I think there were good lessons to be learned from MH370, IR655, and MH17, to name just three off the top of my head from recent memory - plus those two Max 8's.

There's probably very little to be learned in terms of what can go wrong mechanically, especially in small general aviation aircraft, but in terms of human factors, I think there's always something to be learned. Otherwise, why are we bothering to investigate accidents at all?

This incident specifically? Nah - there's nothing to be learned IMHO. The PIC made a stupid mistake.
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by challenger_nami »

I still believe there are good lessons to be learned here.

I will give it a couple of more days for those who oppose my assertion to make their losing cases. and I will then give my crushing response :smt040




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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by PT6-114A »

I did not look at the area around but if the field was full of kids playing do you think he would have landed there?

As for the AC crew that erased the CVR that should be cause for termination. If things went down like they said why did you erase it? It would prove you were right or full of shit.
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by rookiepilot »

PT6-114A wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:10 am
As for the AC crew that erased the CVR that should be cause for termination. If things went down like they said why did you erase it? It would prove you were right or full of shit.
That's a very good question, which won't be answered, because the echo chamber seems to be -- at times -- a million excuses for professional pilots making 200K a year, and unload on student pilots who screw up their first solo landing.

Way too many gave those AC pilots a pass.

Fair?
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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by challenger_nami »

PT6-114A wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:10 am I did not look at the area around but if the field was full of kids playing do you think he would have landed there?

As for the AC crew that erased the CVR that should be cause for termination. If things went down like they said why did you erase it? It would prove you were right or full of shit.
I am not familiar with the Symantecs of termination for a unionized company, but I hope there was some sort of serious reprimand taken place for the Air Canada incident.

@PT6-114, are you a current pilot?



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Re: Hero Pilot Narrowly Avoided Crashing into the School

Post by PT6-114A »

@Challenger_nami I am.
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