Check That Control Stick Attachment

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pelmet
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Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

It can't be a good feeling to have the control stick you are using detach from the aircraft at a critical time on the takeoff roll. Obviously a good thing to check on the preflight along with any debris in both cockpit areas(even if there won't be a pilot in that area) that could possibly cause a jammed stick......

"C- FOWJ, a privately registered Piper Super Cub, PA-18, was operating from a private airstrip
approximately 5nm SE of Dawson Creek (CYDQ), BC, near the town of Pouce Coupe, BC. Two
days prior, on December 6th 2020, the pilot had completed a ferry trip from Nanaimo (CYCD), BC
for the new owner of the aircraft. On the occurrence flight, the pilot was taking the new owner on a
local flight to demonstrate the aircraft. The owner occupied the front seat while the pilot flew from
the aft seat. During the take-off roll, after the tail had come off of the ground, the pilots control stick
in the rear seat became detached from the aircraft. Once the pilot realized he did not have
complete control of the aircraft he tried to give the owner control, but there was not enough time to
react to the situation. The aircraft subsequently collided with trees and brush at the end of the
runway. Both occupants walked away from the aircraft without any injuries.
Following the accident it was found that the rear control stick was not installed in accordance with
the manufacturer's requirements. The rear control stick was not secured in place with securing
hardware but rather just sitting loose in the control stub socket."
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photofly
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by photofly »

Sounds like a great reason to make sure you use the elevator trim. Then when the controls come away in your hands you just keep flying with trim and rudder :-D
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
pelmet
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

photofly wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:02 am Sounds like a great reason to make sure you use the elevator trim. Then when the controls come away in your hands you just keep flying with trim and rudder :-D
One could practice trim and power exercises combined with rudder for such a scenario.
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photofly
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by photofly »

One can, and sometimes does. However, this was on the takeoff roll which is a tad earlier in the flight than you might suppose that skill would be called for! Maybe closing the throttle and steering with the feet would have done it?
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Castorero
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by Castorero »

I wonder if this is the same aircraft...

A few years ago I worked with a carpenter who had gotten his licence in Vanderhoof, I think, sometime in the fifties or sixties.
Anyway, Ray told me that the instructor was a very precise ex Luftwaffe pilot who would insist on the student repeating every command or action as requested by the instructor. For instance if the instructor said " now you shall climb to 3500 ft", the student would repeat, "now I shall climb to 3500 Ft"

When he thought the student was ready to solo it was his practice to fly to the circuit , take the stick in the back and throw it out the airplane somewhere on the field where it could be easily found.
He would follow this action with, "Unt now you vill land ze airplane" with the student repeating "unt now I shall land the airplane " and proceed to do so..

Well everybody knew this, and you know pilots, there is always a smartass in the group.

Apparently, when the instructor threw the sticK out and said "unt now you shall land ze aiplane" this student also threw out his control stick while repeating "Unt now you shall land ze airplane" .

The instructor immediately bailed out with his parachute .

The student completed the circuit and landed the airplane.
He had hidden a spare control stick under his jacket that morning...

I cant vouch for the veracity of this story or if Ray was pulling my leg, but I bet there is somebody out there who may know for sure, and whether this may have been the training machine...
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pelmet
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

Castorero wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:18 pm I wonder if this is the same aircraft...

A few years ago I worked with a carpenter who had gotten his licence in Vanderhoof, I think, sometime in the fifties or sixties.
Anyway, Ray told me that the instructor was a very precise ex Luftwaffe pilot who would insist on the student repeating every command or action as requested by the instructor. For instance if the instructor said " now you shall climb to 3500 ft", the student would repeat, "now I shall climb to 3500 Ft"

When he thought the student was ready to solo it was his practice to fly to the circuit , take the stick in the back and throw it out the airplane somewhere on the field where it could be easily found.
He would follow this action with, "Unt now you vill land ze airplane" with the student repeating "unt now I shall land the airplane " and proceed to do so..

Well everybody knew this, and you know pilots, there is always a smartass in the group.

Apparently, when the instructor threw the sticK out and said "unt now you shall land ze aiplane" this student also threw out his control stick while repeating "Unt now you shall land ze airplane" .

The instructor immediately bailed out with his parachute .

The student completed the circuit and landed the airplane.
He had hidden a spare control stick under his jacket that morning...

I cant vouch for the veracity of this story or if Ray was pulling my leg, but I bet there is somebody out there who may know for sure, and whether this may have been the training machine...
Sounds a little far fetched. The CG would likely change as the instructor maneuvered himself to get out of the aircraft(based on my experience in skydiving ops). But the story did remind me of my first instructor who grew up in the same region but talked with a slow drawl.....

"Heyyyyy.....Vatcha dooooin" "Jaaaaaa.......Beeee Caaarefull".
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tractor driver
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by tractor driver »

Had a similar incident years ago in a J-3.
While training a student, had the rear stick come off in my hands. The “ through” bolt was installed and secure, giving the impression the stick was appropriately attached. However, the stick was turned such that the bolt wasn’t connecting with the lower receiving portion, rather sitting in a gap provided by the curved nature of the lower section. Managed to jam the stick back in place in time to correct the students improper crosswind landing inputs, park, and investigate. A bit of a tricky gotcha there.
G
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RatherBeFlying
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by RatherBeFlying »

I was in the rear of an L-19 doing a glider tow. After release (if not somewhat before) the pilot handed control and told me to take it back.

Joined downwind, turned base and pulled some flaps which called for more back stick, whereupon the stick came out and the nose dropped which got the attention of the front seat.

He recovered fine and we debriefed on the ground.

We both learned the rear stick can be removed and improperly reinstalled.

Unfortunately in Citabrias and Scouts, the rear stick is not removable and the front seat sometimes collapses onto the back seat, killing the pilot.
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pelmet
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

RatherBeFlying wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:08 pm Unfortunately in Citabrias and Scouts, the rear stick is not removable and the front seat sometimes collapses onto the back seat, killing the pilot.
Actually, I have been flying Citabrias and Decalthlon and wasn't aware of this. Was this collapsing because of improper installation of the seats of the seat somehow breaking. Might be something to check more closely underneath on the walkaround.
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RatherBeFlying
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by RatherBeFlying »

The weld on the seat tube can break. I know one glider club that had a spare seat on hand.
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pelmet
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

RatherBeFlying wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:18 pm The weld on the seat tube can break. I know one glider club that had a spare seat on hand.
I guess I should check the welds with a flashlight, if that is possible.

Thanks.
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Blakey
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by Blakey »

The rear stick in the Scout CAN be removed. ACA actually makes a cover to go over the exposed stub that remains.

It is not the front seat that is the problem, it is the rear seat. This AD:

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... enDocument

addresses one issue with the seat and the control stick but the one referred to here is the possibility that the folding rear seat back could "flop" forward and land on top of the control stick. This is prevented by the limit cable attached to the right side of the seat back which does not allow it to go that far forward. This, of course, limits the utility of the folding rear seat and can make accessing the rear storage compartment difficult. People sometimes remove the cable in order to fix that second problem and this opens them up to the first, more dangerous, one.
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pelmet
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by pelmet »

Blakey wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:23 am The rear stick in the Scout CAN be removed. ACA actually makes a cover to go over the exposed stub that remains.

It is not the front seat that is the problem, it is the rear seat. This AD:

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... enDocument

addresses one issue with the seat and the control stick but the one referred to here is the possibility that the folding rear seat back could "flop" forward and land on top of the control stick. This is prevented by the limit cable attached to the right side of the seat back which does not allow it to go that far forward. This, of course, limits the utility of the folding rear seat and can make accessing the rear storage compartment difficult. People sometimes remove the cable in order to fix that second problem and this opens them up to the first, more dangerous, one.
Thank. I really need to join more type clubs to be more familiar with this stuff. Something I recommend to everybody.

The AD you linked is interesting. The rear seat rolls backwards into the baggage compartment due to cracks/wear and the person in the rear seat instinctively grabs the control stick to prevent this aft movement of the seat(which could be from an aerobatic attitude) and aircraft control is lost. Another example of how instinctive reaction can be deadly.

Then you referred to a limit cable to prevent the seat from folding forward. Can you confirm that not all seats can fold forward, and whether the strap is an optional mod or a factory installation. Also, is it for more than the Scout?

Thanks.
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bodyflyer2
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Re: Check That Control Stick Attachment

Post by bodyflyer2 »

Regarding the side-topic of Decathlon "things to check":

The front seatback has indeed collapsed backwards before.

Long ago I remember seeing a Decathlon on the front cover of Sport Aerobatics, flown by that year's US Sportsman level National Champion, Dick Lewis. The next year, 1988, the front seatback failed (at some weld ?? I don't recall the details). Pushed down on the rear stick, overstressed, one wing separated, he went in with the plane.

(One of those things that stuck in my mind as a young pilot flying the same kind of plane at the time.)
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