Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

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pelmet
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Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by pelmet »

Several years ago, I started checking the ramp for any evidence of oil after the first engine run following a maintenance check. Simply do the run-up and then maneuver away from the run-up area with a turn in such a manner that one can see if there is evidence of a large leak.

If the pilot of this accident aircraft had done such a thing, he might be alive today......

"An examination of the airport taxiways revealed that there was an oil trail on the taxiway beginning approximately 600 feet from the engine run-up area, along the taxiway that services the maintenance facility that performed the 100 hour inspection on the airplane. There was a noticeable thin film refraction of oil in the engine run-up area approximately 3 feet by 4 feet, and a trail of oil on the taxiway leading from the engine run-up area and the runway."

https://www.planecrashmap.com/plane/nh/N52670/

https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=74034

Docket item #19 has a picture of the ramp at some point after the accident.
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photofly
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by photofly »

If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

photofly wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
Isn’t that flight school run-up checklist item number 493?
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pelmet
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by pelmet »

photofly wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
I doubt too many pilots renting aircraft after it is signed out of maintenance are shutting down and looking underneath after a run-up. That being said, it will make one more likely to detect a leak.
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photofly
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by photofly »

pelmet wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:52 pm
photofly wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
I doubt too many pilots renting aircraft after it is signed out of maintenance are shutting down and looking underneath after a run-up. That being said, it will make one more likely to detect a leak.
More normatively, the maintenance personnel or AME should do a run up, and then of course they'll shut down while they finish the paperwork. You get a chance to check for leaks when you pick up the aircraft. I'd be cautious about expecting to make a flight immediately after, for example, a run-up following an oil filter change, without a shutdown in between. Don't you think?
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
pelmet
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by pelmet »

photofly wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 am
pelmet wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:52 pm
photofly wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
I doubt too many pilots renting aircraft after it is signed out of maintenance are shutting down and looking underneath after a run-up. That being said, it will make one more likely to detect a leak.
More normatively, the maintenance personnel or AME should do a run up, and then of course they'll shut down while they finish the paperwork. You get a chance to check for leaks when you pick up the aircraft. I'd be cautious about expecting to make a flight immediately after, for example, a run-up following an oil filter change, without a shutdown in between. Don't you think?
“AME should do a run-up “ is the key sentence. Not “must do a run-up”. It is interesting to note from the accident report that in the US, it is mandatory that it be done by maintenance(in this case it was not done).

Your recommendation for a pilot do a shutdown and visual inspection would certainly increase the likelihood of finding a leak. I doubt this gets done very often. Positioning the aircraft to allow one to see evidence of a large oil leak will increase the likelihood of those people(who I suspect are the vast majority of pilots) becoming aware of such a situation.

The same applies to a large coolant leak.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Personally I am always look for the last maintenance event in the Journey log and will be extra vigilant if I am doing the first flight after any significant maintenance. However I have never done a runup and then shut down and gotten out and looked at the airplane unless there was some abnormal indication.

You have to draw the line somewhere otherwise you would never get off the ground

One point that I think is that is important is to use all your senses. I once had a massive oil leak in flight when the engine lifted a cylinder. The first indication was a faint burnt oil smell. There was no indication on the gauges. I find it hard to believe in the incident mentioned by the OP there would not have been a smell or small drops on the windshield given the extent of the leak.
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 am
pelmet wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:52 pm
photofly wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm If you're going to bother do a runup, an integral part of the exercise is to shut down, get out of the plane and get down on your knees and look for leaks.
I doubt too many pilots renting aircraft after it is signed out of maintenance are shutting down and looking underneath after a run-up. That being said, it will make one more likely to detect a leak.
More normatively, the maintenance personnel or AME should do a run up, and then of course they'll shut down while they finish the paperwork. You get a chance to check for leaks when you pick up the aircraft. I'd be cautious about expecting to make a flight immediately after, for example, a run-up following an oil filter change, without a shutdown in between. Don't you think?
This has been the norm in my experience.
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pelmet
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by pelmet »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:04 am Personally I am always look for the last maintenance event in the Journey log and will be extra vigilant if I am doing the first flight after any significant maintenance. However I have never done a runup and then shut down and gotten out and looked at the airplane unless there was some abnormal indication.

You have to draw the line somewhere otherwise you would never get off the ground
Exactly. People can come up with all kinds of ideas to disagree, in order to just disagree, with all of the variety of ideas that are put up for discussion/recommendation. But I am interested in the real world of how most will behave and something simple that can prevent an accident. Check the logbook at the flight school you are renting from. See a major maintenance work just completed on the engine(or even just an oil change). Do the run-up. Look at the ramp if possible. Then go flying. This is going to be the most likely scenario that people will be willing to do. Also a good idea for your own aircraft/personal use non-flight school aircraft. Very simple but no guarantee of anything.

For the rare few who want to go above and beyond this, by shutting down the engine after the run-up, getting out and making a visual inspection, and then starting up again.....they are certainly taking greater caution.
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photofly
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by photofly »

There's a pre-flight run-up, where obviously you don't get out and look around, and there's a "I've just changed the oil and oil filter" runup, where you're not going flying, so after you do that runup, you put the plane away, and you check for leaks while you tie it down.

If I'm picking the plane up from the shop, and the maintenance release says "runup ok", then I look for oil on the nose gear and on the ground when I take possession of the plane. I don't need to do a second runup and then look for leaks. A runup has already been done.

But if I'm picking up the plane and the mechanic says "I haven't done a runup, would you mind?" then yes - after that runup, I'm going to check for oil leaks before I go flying. I would expect everyone to do that.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:18 pm There's a pre-flight run-up, where obviously you don't get out and look around, and there's a "I've just changed the oil and oil filter" runup, where you're not going flying, so after you do that runup, you put the plane away, and you check for leaks while you tie it down.

If I'm picking the plane up from the shop, and the maintenance release says "runup ok", then I look for oil on the nose gear and on the ground when I take possession of the plane. I don't need to do a second runup and then look for leaks. A runup has already been done.

But if I'm picking up the plane and the mechanic says "I haven't done a runup, would you mind?" then yes - after that runup, I'm going to check for oil leaks before I go flying. I would expect everyone to do that.
"Situational awareness"...........
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by anofly »

I mostly change my own oil. I start the airplane, and after 5 mins shut it down, get out, look, wipe bottom of oil filter with finger to check for leaks, I then restart the airplane and fly one or 2 circuits, i then shut it down again, if it has no leaks I am NOW good to go.
I am not comfortable really to go anywhere until i have done this. I suppose now after reading this, if anyone else changes my oil i will do the same...
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pelmet
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Re: Check the Ramp for Leaking oil After post Maintenance Run-up

Post by pelmet »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:04 am Personally I am always look for the last maintenance event in the Journey log and will be extra vigilant if I am doing the first flight after any significant maintenance. However I have never done a runup and then shut down and gotten out and looked at the airplane unless there was some abnormal indication.

You have to draw the line somewhere otherwise you would never get off the ground
Seems like what one would expect in the rental flight school world.

I suggest a quick look back at where you did the run-up.
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