OMNR Tanker gear up

[lownslow]

Article here:

https://saultonline.com/2021/05/plane-c ... F5EP4_ctUg

I’m curious though, why not land on water and moor it somewhere to come up with a recovery plan?




EDIT: I had the impression from the article that ATC had been informed of gear troubles prior to landing though it now sounds like that may not have been the case.

[porcsord]

Just a guess, but maybe it was a gear unsafe indication both up and down, in which case I would also take a solid surface.

Pure speculation ony my part.

[Aviator12]

Do we know if it was intentional? Could be unintentional as well? Won’t know till the investigation is complete.

[North Shore]

Just a guess, but maybe it was a gear unsafe indication both up and down, in which case I would also take a solid surface.

Pure speculation ony my part.

There's windows in both main gear wells, and the cockpit floor, so you'd be able to see if the mains were up or down, or if the nosegear doors were open or not..

[valleyboy]

Now I know that the possibility that the MNR air service might not have a full time professional dispatch system but I do think that they have communications. I find it hard to believe in this day and age that the crew did not discuss the issue (if it was a indication issue and not an oops) with maintenance and such. While the captain makes the final decision I would think that a there would be more involved in deciding what to do with the aircraft. Emergency vehicles and such. Not water support and it's damn cold for swimming.

[fish4life]

I know how regular amphibs perform with a gear down water landing, how do the big flying boats handle it? I literally have zero flying boat experience but I’d imagine scraping the belly is always preferred to cartwheeling or damaging anything on a water landing that could result in a hull puncture and possible sinking.

[Aviator12]

If you listen to the live atc archives, tower had no information of a pre existing issue. The tanker was doing circuits at the time. It wasn’t until tower noticed it sitting on the runway without gear that he questioned if there was an issue. Took the fire truck 5-10 minutes to get out there as well. Also, one of the crew on board asks tower to call someone at the mnr hangar to notify the situation. Obviously it doesn’t sound like anyone knew beforehand of a gear issue.

Leads me to believe the crew on board the tanker were unaware that that the gear was not down...and from the pictures it doesn’t look like a partial extension/collapse...

[rookiepilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gTBe0FWQ18

[AirFrame]

Leads me to believe the crew on board the tanker were unaware that that the gear was not down...and from the pictures it doesn’t look like a partial extension/collapse...

My thoughts exactly. It was a failure of the nut that connects the pilot's seat to the gear lever.

[mmm..bacon]

Leads me to believe the crew on board the tanker were unaware that that the gear was not down...and from the pictures it doesn’t look like a partial extension/collapse...

My thoughts exactly. It was a failure of the nut that connects the pilot's seat to the gear lever.

**IF** that is the case, that's embarrassing: professional pilots aren't supposed to make those sort of mistakes - especially in a two-crew (perhaps 3, if they were training) cockpit

[Meatservo]

professional pilots aren't supposed to make those sort of mistakes

Nobody is supposed to make mistakes. And yet they do. That's why they're called "mistakes".

[photofly]

If anyone hasn't read it, this article by John Deakin, about how he nearly became the only pilot ever to land gear-up in a 747, is worth a minute of your time:

Watching my instruments, I got a funny little feeling. Gear handle off? Off? Why is it OFF? It’s not supposed to be off, it’s supposed to be Down. It felt like someone dumped a bucket of ice water down my back. I had forgotten the gear, and the landing checklist!The only points I’ll give myself that night are that I didn’t flinch, or look. I just said very quietly, “Gear down, please, and landing check.”The response was as if four cattle prods had been stuck straight up through the middle of each seat. Four men stiffened, then leaned forward, the better to see the gear handle. Four men simultaneously sucked in their breath. And four men watched as the gear handle went down, the green lights came on, and red light went off as the doors closed. I called for the final flaps, the checklist was completed passing 1,000 feet, and the landing was uneventful. Everything was within limits, if a little delayed by customary JAL standards.We landed, completed the usual drills, cleared Customs, and split up to go our separate ways. No one said a word about the (near) incident, then or later. I knew my knees were shaking, but they didn’t. I didn’t tell the story for at least 15 years. There is no doubt in my mind that all five of us had slipped a gear somewhere during that approach, and we all thought the gear and flaps were down, and the checklist was complete. No, all five of us KNEW the gear was down – and it wasn’t.

https://www.avweb.com/features/pelicans ... -in-a-747/

[pelmet]

If anyone hasn't read it, this article by John Deakin, about how he nearly became the only pilot ever to land gear-up in a 747, is worth a minute of your time:

Watching my instruments, I got a funny little feeling. Gear handle off? Off? Why is it OFF? It’s not supposed to be off, it’s supposed to be Down. It felt like someone dumped a bucket of ice water down my back. I had forgotten the gear, and the landing checklist!The only points I’ll give myself that night are that I didn’t flinch, or look. I just said very quietly, “Gear down, please, and landing check.”The response was as if four cattle prods had been stuck straight up through the middle of each seat. Four men stiffened, then leaned forward, the better to see the gear handle. Four men simultaneously sucked in their breath. And four men watched as the gear handle went down, the green lights came on, and red light went off as the doors closed. I called for the final flaps, the checklist was completed passing 1,000 feet, and the landing was uneventful. Everything was within limits, if a little delayed by customary JAL standards.We landed, completed the usual drills, cleared Customs, and split up to go our separate ways. No one said a word about the (near) incident, then or later. I knew my knees were shaking, but they didn’t. I didn’t tell the story for at least 15 years. There is no doubt in my mind that all five of us had slipped a gear somewhere during that approach, and we all thought the gear and flaps were down, and the checklist was complete. No, all five of us KNEW the gear was down – and it wasn’t.

https://www.avweb.com/features/pelicans ... -in-a-747/

Actually, the Pakistanis did land one gear up. Perhaps it happened after Deakins incident. I suppose this video might replicate from the outside view what happened to the JAL flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDgvWa-EbbE

[Redmud]

Howdy guys, you can put all speculation to rest. A buddy who works the OMNR fleet just informed me it was a practice flap-less approach during a training flight and the pilots forgot to lower the gear. These things can happen, they shouldn't, but they do... she will be rebuilt at great cost, but she will fly again in the future!
Red

[fish4life]

Do they have a sim for the 415’s?

[challenger_nami]

it was a practice flap-less approach during a training flight and the pilots forgot to lower the gear.

So now, what’s gonna happen to the training flight?
Rescheduled Flight Training/(checkride?) OR Failed?


.

[valleyboy]

This re-enforces what I have maintained for years. There should either be a safety pilot in the jump seat or the best solution is the trainer is in the jump seat. This is the way simulators work so why not extend that to airborne training as well.

[North Shore]

Do they have a sim for the 415’s?

Yes, they do. Located in a really nice facility at the YAM airport. Sadly, not full-motion though, so I believe that technically, it’s only a ‘flight training device’.

[J31]

Do they have a sim for the 415’s?

There is a full motion sim in Milan, Italy.

https://www.flightglobal.com/systems-an ... 61.article

[Heliian]

The sea/land switch is the most important part of that system.

If it's in sea mode, there is no warning with gear up.