Thunder Bay airport accident

[digits_]

From the quoted article:

The investigators found the plane in an inverted position on the runway, and destroyed by a post-impact fire.

The inverted position makes it sound like a VMC roll

[bobcaygeon]

From the quoted article:

The investigators found the plane in an inverted position on the runway, and destroyed by a post-impact fire.

The inverted position makes it sound like a VMC roll

Really?? That's a pretty big assumption considering airplanes don't really structured things in a crash. Catching a wingtip for whatever reason could flip it too. Airplanes are very good at ending up upside down after they hit the ground.

I would be shocked if there isn't video footage somewhere that recorded it.

The WX cameras should have caught it all in addition to all the security cameras at and around field.
https://www.metcam.navcanada.ca/hb/play ... &site=CYQT

[trey kule]

Lets not forget that someone lost their life here.

Are all these comments really necessary?

[digits_]

From the quoted article:

The investigators found the plane in an inverted position on the runway, and destroyed by a post-impact fire.

The inverted position makes it sound like a VMC roll

Really?? That's a pretty big assumption considering airplanes don't really structured things in a crash. Catching a wingtip for whatever reason could flip it too. Airplanes are very good at ending up upside down after they hit the ground.

Smaller single engine aircraft flip over easily, heavier twin turbine airplanes take a bit more effort to flip. Yes, of course there can be other reasons why the plane flipped. But assuming the info about the flight controls is correct, a VMC roll seems the most likely to me. I'd be happy to hear other possibilities.

[lownslow]

I would be shocked if there isn't video footage somewhere that recorded it.

It should be a certainty, there was another plane that clipped a windrow a couple winters back in almost exactly the accident site and the airport had footage from a camera pointed at that spot.

I’m curious too but the reality is neither you nor I need to see that footage and that’s probably for the better.

[ant_321]

I just found out I know the guy. So sad. A great young man with a true passion for aviation.

[BTD]

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news ... sh-4241983

[golden hawk]

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/ ... sh-4241983

[BTD]

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/ ... sh-4241983

[Bede]

. Catching a wingtip for whatever reason could flip it too. Airplanes are very good at ending up upside down after they hit the ground.

I saw the wreckage from about 200’ away. Both wing tips seemed relatively intact. The tail destroyed. Almost like it hit exactly upside down.

[Dry Guy]

Being an Aero Commander hopefully they check what type of fuel was put in it.

[Bede]

Being an Aero Commander hopefully they check what type of fuel was put in it.

Why? Garrett's can run on Avgas. Can't remember the ratio though. Something like 10 hrs every 100.

[Lost in Saigon]

Being an Aero Commander hopefully they check what type of fuel was put in it.

The aircraft in question is actually a “Turbo Commander” with Garrett TPE-331 turbine engines. They will run quite well on Avgas or almost anything that is liquid and burns.

5F54B330-5DA0-4A83-BA0E-59FA535220CC.jpeg (1.19 MiB) Viewed 3677 times

CBE613A3-FA4D-471D-B888-D30955CE72ED.jpeg (125.3 KiB) Viewed 3667 times

[lownslow]

The report is out. Typical TSB, “We know a similar profile was intentionally flown twice that day but that’s not the axe we’re here to grind,” but otherwise seems complete enough. I wonder how the trainee controller felt about the whole affair.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0078.html

[rookiepilot]

The report is out. Typical TSB, “We know a similar profile was intentionally flown twice that day but that’s not the axe we’re here to grind,” but otherwise seems complete enough. I wonder how the trainee controller felt about the whole affair.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0078.html

Gee, did (he) have his camera ready when it all went bad the third time?

Did this controller lose his job? At least?

Brutal.

How about one of you fellow controllers — any comment on the professionalism shown here?

[digits_]

The report is out. Typical TSB, “We know a similar profile was intentionally flown twice that day but that’s not the axe we’re here to grind,” but otherwise seems complete enough. I wonder how the trainee controller felt about the whole affair.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0078.html

Oh god ... That's bad ...

I wonder what the communication with the landing aircraft was about. They don't clarify, yet repeat multiple times they knew each other.


Blaming this on the controllers would be a bit misplaced IMO.

[rookiepilot]

The report is out. Typical TSB, “We know a similar profile was intentionally flown twice that day but that’s not the axe we’re here to grind,” but otherwise seems complete enough. I wonder how the trainee controller felt about the whole affair.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0078.html

Oh god ... That's bad ...

I wonder what the communication with the landing aircraft was about. They don't clarify, yet repeat multiple times they knew each other.


Blaming this on the controllers would be a bit misplaced IMO.

Well, gee, I was taught that from my first PPL lesson some 19 years ago.


Whatever happens, you’re PIC it’s always your fault, not ever a controller’s, like the one years later who pressured me multiple times to accept a vector into a nice line of thunderstorms lit up on my stormscope like the 4th of July. Until I essentially told him to F off.

So sure, egging on a pilot to perform a low level airshow for the tower is just dandy, too.

[digits_]

The report is out. Typical TSB, “We know a similar profile was intentionally flown twice that day but that’s not the axe we’re here to grind,” but otherwise seems complete enough. I wonder how the trainee controller felt about the whole affair.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0078.html

Oh god ... That's bad ...

I wonder what the communication with the landing aircraft was about. They don't clarify, yet repeat multiple times they knew each other.


Blaming this on the controllers would be a bit misplaced IMO.

Well, gee, I was taught that from my first PPL lesson some 19 years ago.


Whatever happens, you’re PIC it’s always your fault, not ever a controller’s, like the one years later who pressured me multiple times to accept a vector into a nice line of thunderstorms lit up on my stormscope like the 4th of July. Until I essentially told him to F off.

So sure, egging on a pilot to perform a low level airshow for the tower is just dandy, too.

Then why do you expect the controller to lose his job?

If this was a first solo student then perhaps you could attribute a significant portion of the blame on the controller. But it wasn't. It was a pilot who flew low level, likely at fairly steep angles, for a living. Often in front of cameras or news crews. Somebody like that should not be influenced by an eager spectator.

[piperdriver]

Oh god ... That's bad ...

I wonder what the communication with the landing aircraft was about. They don't clarify, yet repeat multiple times they knew each other.


Blaming this on the controllers would be a bit misplaced IMO.

Well, gee, I was taught that from my first PPL lesson some 19 years ago.


Whatever happens, you’re PIC it’s always your fault, not ever a controller’s, like the one years later who pressured me multiple times to accept a vector into a nice line of thunderstorms lit up on my stormscope like the 4th of July. Until I essentially told him to F off.

So sure, egging on a pilot to perform a low level airshow for the tower is just dandy, too.

Then why do you expect the controller to lose his job?

If this was a first solo student then perhaps you could attribute a significant portion of the blame on the controller. But it wasn't. It was a pilot who flew low level, likely at fairly steep angles, for a living. Often in front of cameras or news crews. Somebody like that should not be influenced by an eager spectator.

I will not state my opinion about the controller's actions here.

In regards to the pilot I agree/disagree. I agree he should not have been influenced by the controller. But the low level steep turn air work you speak of is performed by the CL-415 and not the Birddog Aircraft. And not every situation or fire would require a steep turn from the tankers it would depend on a a lot of factors. Fire behavior, topography, wind, the lake they are scooping from, etc. The birddog aircraft might go as low as 500 AGL to take a closer look at the fire behavior but is generally up above the tankers at 2000-3000 AGL. Usually performing a continuous right hand turn so the Air Attack Officer can observe the fire from the right seat.

In my opinion to say he flew close to the ground doing steep turns for a living would be a disingenuous statement.

[Donald]

To put any blame at all on the controller is absurd, they don't fly the plane.

Period.

This is 100% on the pilot, and they paid the ultimate price, thank God it was just one fatality. There's even a confirmed pattern of decision making here, how much more evidence do you need?