Kenn Borek Antarctic Cause/Speculation Thread

[flyinthebug]

If it were me on that mountain, I wouldn't want a single person (volunteer or otherwise) to risk their lives trying to recover my former body. As Doc said, its over.

I empathize with your feelings Rowdy and knowing Bob as well as you and I both did, its the personal "affect" of this that is making you feel this strongly. I sincerely don't believe we will find anything on that aircraft that will come as a surprise to anyone.

We all miss Bob and he was a great guy...not to mention his FO and engineer onboard all had friends and family that miss them too. I say leave them to rest in peace where they came to rest.

To those that knew Bob...we know he wouldn't have minded having a DHC6 as his final resting place.

God Speed my friend.

Fly safe all.

[leftoftrack]

The story doesn't indicate that there is danger in recovering the body's. the story indicates that their is no one in charge of leading the expedition. New Zealand is SAR not recovery. TSB without sending anyone has determined that it is unsafe. Which leaves no one to lead the expedition. I'm not saying this is strictly a financial decision but it has not indicated anywhere that this decision is based on personal saftey, other than from a government agency who has never operated on that continent. I garenty you that if you asked Bob or Mike or Perry Not one of them would want to have a twin otter as their coffin.

[Doc]

The story doesn't indicate that there is danger in recovering the body's. the story indicates that their is no one in charge of leading the expedition. New Zealand is SAR not recovery. TSB without sending anyone has determined that it is unsafe. Which leaves no one to lead the expedition. I'm not saying this is strictly a financial decision but it has not indicated anywhere that this decision is based on personal saftey, other than from a government agency who has never operated on that continent. I garenty you that if you asked Bob or Mike or Perry Not one of them would want to have a twin otter as their coffin.

You used the word "expedition" a couple of times there. To think an expedition up the side of a mountain in Antarctica would not involve more than considerable danger, would indeed be folly.
Keep in mind that Bob, Mike and Perry are no longer "in residence", leaving their bodies as they rest, may be the most respectful route to take.
Their final resting place will forever be a beacon to those who operate in the area.

[ettw]

I've seen the site and I can say with a very high level of confidence that there is a high level of risk to those persons who would be involved in the recovery. Avalanche seemed to be the rescue crews biggest concern last year.

If I were the one making the decision, I would respectfully look the family members in the eye and apologize but make it clear that I was not prepared to risk anyone else's lives to recover their loved ones.

Respectfully.

ETTW

[Doc]

If I were the one making the decision, I would respectfully look the family members in the eye and apologize but make it clear that I was not prepared to risk anyone else's lives to recover their loved ones.

Respectfully.

ETTW

Well said.

[Colonel Sanders]

To those that knew Bob...we know he wouldn't have minded having a DHC6 as his final resting place

+1

[frozen solid]

A couple of us were talking about that at work. With the greatest respect to the feelings of their families of course, I might have picked a similar resting spot for myself if that had happened to me. I don't know where souls go, but eternal unchanging quiet for my body is something I might have chosen.

[stallie]

A couple of us were talking about that at work. With the greatest respect to the feelings of their families of course, I might have picked a similar resting spot for myself if that had happened to me. I don't know where souls go, but eternal unchanging quiet for my body is something I might have chosen.

I don't think I've met you flying down on the ice, but you have summed up my feelings better than I could. I had been thinking of how to put this into words and you've done it perfectly. I even said it to my wife last night that if I was ever to end up in a similar position, leave me there in the untouched wilderness

f I were the one making the decision, I would respectfully look the family members in the eye and apologize but make it clear that I was not prepared to risk anyone else's lives to recover their loved ones.

Exactly.

Their final resting place will forever be a beacon to those who operate in the area.

And again - something that will never be in vain.


As for the recovery, I don't think some of the posters have any idea of the logistics in getting to that point in Antarctica. KB couldn't just send an aircraft there without extensive support (read fuel) of several Antarctic Nations. Then you need a chopper. Whose? Which Antarctic program? There's possibility that the entire USAP summer is about to be abandoned in any case, so even if there had been a recovery ready to go, it probably wouldn't have occurred anyway...

[Siddley Hawker]

Well said Stallie. Are you going back this summer?

[stallie]

Just day trips for me these days. I do miss spending time there though.

[stallie]

And the USAP season has been cancelled.....

[ettw]

I read it as a delay for now. Waiting on the partiseans south of the border to get their priorities sorted out.

ETTW

[stallie]

I hope you're right, but if they start pulling people out it will take a long time to get back up to speed again.

Have you guys left yet?

[ettw]

I believe two machines have left already to pull someone out of pole to mcmurdo. Not sure about any other machines.

ETTW

[Doc]

That would be it for you guys till next year then?

[ettw]

I'm guessing its a wait and see kind of thing now.

ETTW

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

[flyinthebug]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

Good rant godsrcrazy. Although I understand and empathize with your feelings, you must understand the logistics between bringing someone down off a mountain in Canada vs. doing the same thing in such an isolated place with very limited equipment. In Canada, we can use our many tools to mitigate the risk...whereas in Antarctica there are very limited tools for the SAR to use. I doubt they have "avalanche cannons" there as we do here...nor do they have the personnel or equipment to complete this recovery safely.

I agree if Bob and his crew were sitting on the side of Mount Washington, I would be loud and obnoxious about getting the job done...but being that they are so isolated and in such a treacherous part of the world, I would hate to see anyone else lose their lives in an attempt to repatriate these 3 great men.

As I said previously in this thread, I sincerely believe that Bob wouldn't mind being in a DHC6 for eternity. Besides, depending on your spiritual beliefs, none of those men are there anymore...just the vessel they used for this part of their journey through the universe.

If they were in a less remote area and we had the tools to do the job safely then I would agree with you. Unless you have been down "on the ice" you couldn't imagine just how remote and desolate it is there. It makes Cat Lake look like downtown T Bay in comparison.

I really don't believe this is about money...I believe its more about logistics and safety.

Fly safe all.

[rigpiggy]

There was a quote about why these guys go to pole.

Something about first time for the money, second time cause they're crazy, and third time because there is nowhere else they would rather be.

Bob spent many tours on the Ice, and was a wonderful Gent. I remember more than a few nights at single malt mondays at the Finto, Loved the stories."Sparky" , Fuel Dumps, Esker Run's etc...... He was one of those "Men that don't fit In" and I am sure there is no better resting place for him.


“There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't sit still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin, And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest; Their's is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.”

― Robert W. Service

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

Good rant godsrcrazy. Although I understand and empathize with your feelings, you must understand the logistics between bringing someone down off a mountain in Canada vs. doing the same thing in such an isolated place with very limited equipment. In Canada, we can use our many tools to mitigate the risk...whereas in Antarctica there are very limited tools for the SAR to use. I doubt they have "avalanche cannons" there as we do here...nor do they have the personnel or equipment to complete this recovery safely.

I agree if Bob and his crew were sitting on the side of Mount Washington, I would be loud and obnoxious about getting the job done...but being that they are so isolated and in such a treacherous part of the world, I would hate to see anyone else lose their lives in an attempt to repatriate these 3 great men.

As I said previously in this thread, I sincerely believe that Bob wouldn't mind being in a DHC6 for eternity. Besides, depending on your spiritual beliefs, none of those men are there anymore...just the vessel they used for this part of their journey through the universe.

If they were in a less remote area and we had the tools to do the job safely then I would agree with you. Unless you have been down "on the ice" you couldn't imagine just how remote and desolate it is there. It makes Cat Lake look like downtown T Bay in comparison.

I really don't believe this is about money...I believe its more about logistics and safety.

Fly safe all.

I guess the only people that need to be put to rest now are the families of the crew. If they are happy with their loved ones being left there to rest then so am I. If they are not then they should be brought home. I have never worked in the Antarctic but i have done my share of time in the high Arctic. I do understand the logistics are different in both places. However as i said if this was a high ranking government official there would be helicopters flying overhead dropping explosives to control any possible avalanche etc. This is strictly about money as this could be done but logistics cost money.