Can I log Pilot in Command time?

[Allan8552]

I'm currently type rated on a Citation 2 and I do not have my atpl yet. The aircraft is listed on our AOC as rated to fly two crew as far as I know. Our company has the PF flying from the left seat. I log my time in the right seat as co-pilot time but my question is can I log my time in the left seat as Pilot in Command ? Or no.

[jschnurr]

PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.

Your Ops manual should have this clarified.

[porcsord]

PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.

Oh how I wish people realized this.

[ahramin]

Yes, you can legally log it as PIC ... IF you are PIC. If someone else is PIC and you're sitting in the left seat flying the plane and making all the decision until something goes wrong, that person is the PIC, not you, and you can't log it as PIC.

[Allan8552]

Understood

PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.

Your Ops manual should have this clarified.

Yes, you can legally log it as PIC ... IF you are PIC. If someone else is PIC and you're sitting in the left seat flying the plane and making all the decision until something goes wrong, that person is the PIC, not you, and you can't log it as PIC.

.

Understood!

[Chaxterium]

It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story. The only exception to this is PICUS. Which, if you're hurting for PIC time for your ATPL, could help you. But you'll have to look into whether your company has the PICUS program.

[Allan8552]

It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story. The only exception to this is PICUS. Which, if you're hurting for PIC time for your ATPL, could help you. But you'll have to look into whether your company has the PICUS program.

They do thankfully. Just need another 7 hours to qualify as I believe I need 150 hours PIC to qualify.

[Chaxterium]

Yep. That's correct. In order to utilize the PICUS program the candidate must have 150 hours of PIC. You may have to bite the bullet and buy the hours. At least it's only 7. I know guys who've had to buy a lot more than that.

Best of luck.

[praveen4143]

It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story.

Do you mean personal logbook or Journey log? This isn't a thing in Canada as far as I can think.

Personal (pilot) logbooks are only required to be signed by the pilot who it belongs to. The Journey log is usually signed by anyone authorized to do so by the owner or operator of the aircraft. (Although I couldn't readily find the CAR reference for this, so maybe someone please correct me if I am wrong.)

[Chaxterium]

It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story.

Do you mean personal logbook or Journey log? This isn't a thing in Canada as far as I can think.

Personal (pilot) logbooks are only required to be signed by the pilot who it belongs to. The Journey log is usually signed by anyone authorized to do so by the owner or operator of the aircraft. (Although I couldn't readily find the CAR reference for this, so maybe someone please correct me if I am wrong.)

Journey log. For every airline I've ever flown for the captain always signs the journey log. I'm honestly not sure if there is a CARs requirement for this or not as I've never had to look it up but for each company I worked for it was a company requirement that the PIC must sign the journey log.

[photofly]

The required contents of the journey log are listed in schedule 1 to 605.94. Unless at an FTU, the PIC is responsible for the entry for each flight or series of flights. It doesn't say it has to be written by the PIC, it could be delegated. And there is no requirement for the entries to be signed at all.


Aside: why does everyone get a stiffie about signing things? Do people think it's ok to write untruths in logbooks as long as they don't have to sign it? "Oh, well, if I actually have to *sign*, then I guess I better write the truth." What's with that?

[Schooner69A]

Allan8552: I flew 15 years corporate in a company where we were all aircraft captains and swapped seats every leg. On those legs where I was in the right seat, I logged 'co-pilot'...

John

[praveen4143]

The required contents of the journey log are listed in schedule 1 to 605.94. Unless at an FTU, the PIC is responsible for the entry for each flight or series of flights. It doesn't say it has to be written by the PIC, it could be delegated. And there is no requirement for the entries to be signed at all.

Thanks for pointing me towards the schedule. Didn't realize that there was one, albeit a little further down.

For anyone else looking for reference:

JLog.png (38.37 KiB) Viewed 1326 times

[MrAviator19]

What does your OFP say with regards to who is PIC and SIC for each flight?

A brand new student training in a C172 can also be PF in the left seat... just saying.

MrA