Huge discouragement

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altiplano
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Re: Huge discouragement

#26 Post by altiplano » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:11 pm

Right time. Right place. Making connections.

You have nothing to offer them with just a resume emailed. They won't look at it again. Follow up with a phone call or visit.

Be persistent. I got my first job because I targeted an operator with a history of hiring low timers, visited often, and got to know the CP.
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bring me the horizon
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Re: Huge discouragement

#27 Post by bring me the horizon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:25 am

I got my first job with 220 hours and sending emails and that was in 2014. I would have done the road trip but I was broke after getting my cpl and float rating. I send out about 200-300 emails with custom tailored cover letters and resumes in early January and received 6 call backs within the week. Perhaps it's your resume that's not setting you apart from all the other 250 hour wonders applying for the same job. I had the advantage of being mechanically inclined since I was an AME and had lots of experience working with small engine repair shops and construction companies in my youth.

Know your prospective employer. If you're applying for a bush gig flying a clapped out 180 on floats, include that you enjoy fishing, hunting and being outdoors. Think ahead and know what will be expected of you. Keep your resume one-page, plain and simple. Include your references on the same page. If you don't have much else to offer; grab a pair of carhartts, headset, mobile printer and hit the road! Now's the time. The season starts in 2 weeks.
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

#28 Post by co-joe » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Whats the best way to hand in a resume?

#15 Post by just curious » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 pm
Pick a company.
Using the correct spelling of both the company name and the CP's name, send a resume via email with a cover letter tailored to that company, and your
Resume. See the sticky above regarding resume and cover letter advise.

Wait a week. Try and phone to confirm receipt. Send updates once a month or on significant change.

Email prior, but explain that you are doing a road trip, and would appreciate 5 minutes of somebody's valuable time.

Stop by, dressed like pilots dress in the company. Have a resume, licence copy
and all that good stuff ready.

Try hard to network so that someone in the company can walk you into the CP's office.
Try not to fart, burp or drool in the office.
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

#29 Post by co-joe » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:24 pm

180 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:57 am
In this day and age of instant gratification and high-speed technology, it's the 9 X 12 manila envelope with a hand written address, addressed to the owner/chief pilot with his/her name spelled correctly that's going to stand out in the pile.

Many moons ago, I targeted the two dozen float operators I was interested in applying with. I cold called each operation one by one and explained to whomever answered the phone that I was mailing off a resume and wanted to make sure I addressed it to the right person (owner/chief pilot/HR) and double checked the spelling of their names. I then put my one page cover letter (each cover letter personalized to the correct contact person and the actual company, not 'To Whom It May Concern' , and 'I'd like to work for your company') and my one page resume (triple checked for typos, proof read by a dozen friends/family) in said manila envelope, stuck a stamp on it and mailed it off. I then waited 10 days and followed up each resume with a phone call to the correct person to confirm that they received it, and also to say I was going to be driving through their neck of the woods on a road trip in 2 weeks time, and would it be OK to stop in and introduce myself in person. 2 weeks later, I started my road trip, and the day before I reached each base, I made a second phone call to let them know I would be passing through tomorrow and was there a time of day that was most convenient for them.

Needless to say, I made some great contacts across the country, got the inside scoop on most of the operators on my list from the horse's mouths, was offered multiple jobs, and finally accepted with the operator that I felt was best suited for me. (The one where I had a good vibe from the boss, a good vibe from the staff, had nice clean machines, decent pay, decent location, etc.)

Since then, I've been the Chief Pilot and I've been the Ops Manager, and knowing what I know now, and having learned from what I learned then, if I had to do it all over again, I would do it exactly the same way.

To answer your question, the best way to hand in your resume is in as personal and as unique a way as possible, without going over the top.

I've heard of the resume stapled to a pizza box delivered to the chief pilot at lunch. (It worked.)

I've heard of the low time guy who stuck a pack of gum in each envelope with his resume. (When he phoned to follow up with the Chief Pilot, there was no question which resume was his...very memorable.)

Once I had accumulated 1000 hours PIC on floats, I attached a Top-5 list of 'why you should hire me' to a bottle of single-malt and left it where the owner of my first-choice operation would find it after work one Friday. (It worked in getting my dream job, and I'm still there almost a decade later.)

Good luck!
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Re: Huge discouragement

#30 Post by co-joe » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:32 pm

Not trying to bore you with searches I did, but god dammit there is some great advice here that gets lost in the shuffle. Best advice is search Just Curious posts on job hunt, road trip, job search, etc. He was a long time contributor here who sadly perished in a Twin Otter in Antarctica 5 years ago. He honestly took a genuine interest in seeing young pilots succeed and had some of the best advice I've ever come across. There was one specific post of his I was looking for about road trips that I just can't seem to find, gotta run some errands and but look later for you.

The key points are call, call, call. What's the chief pilot's name? Will he/ she take calls from young low time pilots? I'd love to come check out your operation, will they be around monday and maybe give me 5 minutes?

Send, send, send resumes.

Follow up calls.

Most important are road trips. Bring work gloves that look used (drag them behind your car if necessary). Wear working clothes but look presentable and appropriate to the operation. (requires research). Having a trade or other skills (like playing goal with a good save percentage) might help small companies. Having college education might hurt your chances at some and bolster them at others.

keep in touch. No only means not today.

Be persistent but don't be a pest.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Huge discouragement

#31 Post by Jack Klumpus » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:06 pm

Be at the right place at the right time. So...

Be everywhere, all the time!
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Huge discouragement

#32 Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:37 pm

I have 30 yrs in the industry and I can say conclusively that for the first time ever there is well and truly a “pilot shortage” in that there is more jobs than good prospect 200 hr brand new CPL’s.

By good prospect, I mean guys or gals that took the flight training seriously, that did significantly more than the bare minimum to pass the written and flight tests, that show up for the interview prepared and with a good attitude and work ethic.

Anybody who can’t get a job today needs to take a serious look at themselves because it doesn’t get better than this in terms of opportunities to get started in commercial aviation.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Huge discouragement

#33 Post by HansDietrich » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:29 am

tsukubacpe wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:17 pm
I haven't even been offered a ramp position....not that I would take it because I believe and still have high hopes of landing my first job flying but man this is crazy.
It seems to me that you feel you're more entitled than the rest. I hope I'm wrong. Why wouldn't you take a ramp job? What exactly sets you apart from the rest of the 200 - 250 hr pilots? Why should someone hire you?

Most of us older guys paid our dues and started on the ramp, worked in the North, flew shitty NDB approaches on a daily basis and didn't have an auto pilot on our first plane... or second... or third...

This story is nothing new. Get your @$$ out of the road and start knocking on doors. Also, where are your friends? One of the things I've always been told and keep on telling people: "Make friends in aviation. They'll be the ones that will put in a good word for you, so you can get that first job. Most of my pilot buddies and also myself got jobs by knowing people. Were you the guy that always bragged about how your first job will be right seat of a Q400 at Porter?
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Huge discouragement

#34 Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:35 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:29 am

Also, where are your friends? One of the things I've always been told and keep on telling people: "Make friends in aviation. They'll be the ones that will put in a good word for you, so you can get that first job. Most of my pilot buddies and also myself got jobs by knowing people.
/\ What he said. I flew for 5 different companies and every one was a result of a referral from somebody who knew me.
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North Shore
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Re: Huge discouragement

#35 Post by North Shore » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:08 am

co-joe wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:32 pm
Not trying to bore you with searches I did, but god dammit there is some great advice here that gets lost in the shuffle. Best advice is search Just Curious posts on job hunt, road trip, job search, etc. He was a long time contributor here who sadly perished in a Twin Otter in Antarctica 5 years ago. He honestly took a genuine interest in seeing young pilots succeed and had some of the best advice I've ever come across. There was one specific post of his I was looking for about road trips that I just can't seem to find, gotta run some errands and but look later for you.
Try this thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=78703 Post #5 is a cut/paste I did of one of the better ones..
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Re: Huge discouragement

#36 Post by mixturerich » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:28 am

Road trip got me and many other friends our first jobs. Be friendly and the people you meet along the way at each operator will help point you in the right direction. Also, hassle NorthWright for a job. They are always looking for people and it’s a great place to get started. Quick time to flight line. Not to mention grab that coveted PIC time on the C206/207 right out of the gates. And there’s no bond for the Cessnas either.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#37 Post by co-joe » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:15 am

To North Shore you listen. Smart is he.
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tsukubacpe
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Re: Huge discouragement

#38 Post by tsukubacpe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:36 pm

Major Update: Had a phone interview with a 703 operator on Friday. Just received letter of employment!!

Thank you all for the nice words of encouragement. I hope this helps and motivates others on their journey.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#39 Post by DanWEC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:35 pm

Great!! Enjoy it. Reflect on how lucky you are Every. Single. Time that you break through the top.

That'll keep you going when others get you down.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#40 Post by FICU » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:34 am

A phone interview... how times have changed.

Congrats and enjoy the ride!
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Re: Huge discouragement

#41 Post by ahkhamza » Mon May 28, 2018 10:20 pm

tsukubacpe wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:36 pm
Major Update: Had a phone interview with a 703 operator on Friday. Just received letter of employment!!

Thank you all for the nice words of encouragement. I hope this helps and motivates others on their journey.
Please PM the name of the airline
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Spinwmts
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Re: Huge discouragement

#42 Post by Spinwmts » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:17 pm

still have about 50 hours to go to my CPL. Thinking maybe I take a xc to a few of these places right away just to say hi. ah but on the other hand... need to work on my pwr off 180's too ;)
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Re: Huge discouragement

#43 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 pm

Spinwmts wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:17 pm
still have about 50 hours to go to my CPL. Thinking maybe I take a xc to a few of these places right away just to say hi. ah but on the other hand... need to work on my pwr off 180's too ;)

It's hard to get in companies. I'm 5000+ hrs and airlines haven't offered me a position.
When airlines aren't hiring, It's hard for newbies to get a job.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#44 Post by jpilot77 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:28 pm

Airlines are hiring like crazy right now.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#45 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm

jpilot77 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:28 pm
Airlines are hiring like crazy right now.
Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#46 Post by Diadem » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:47 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
I had three offers in the last year, and turned down I think four interviews after I had accepted a position. I'm not far off your TT either, so it's definitely not that you have too much experience.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#47 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 pm

Diadem wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:47 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm
Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
I had three offers in the last year, and turned down I think four interviews after I had accepted a position. I'm not far off your TT either, so it's definitely not that you have too much experience.
Correct, it's because Airlines aren't hiring.
Easy to say airlines are hiring if you haven't actually applied to 10+ like many of us out there have.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#48 Post by ant_321 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:02 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm
jpilot77 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:28 pm
Airlines are hiring like crazy right now.
Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
Off EVAS won't interview you with that time there are only 3 possible situations.

1. You are a troll and haven't really applied anywhere
2. Your resume is written absolutely terribly
3. You have made a terrible name for yourself.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#49 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:09 pm

ant_321 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:02 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm
jpilot77 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:28 pm
Airlines are hiring like crazy right now.
Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
Off EVAS won't interview you with that time there are only 3 possible situations.

1. You are a troll and haven't really applied anywhere
2. Your resume is written absolutely terribly
3. You have made a terrible name for yourself.
None of those situations are correct.

EVAS was hiring applicants from India and Mexico last fall, maybe they are more suited for their ops.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#50 Post by ant_321 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:23 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:09 pm
ant_321 wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:02 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm


Where? Asia?
I've been applying in Canada with no offers of employment. From Pacific Coastal to EVAS and between there's been very little interest.
Off EVAS won't interview you with that time there are only 3 possible situations.

1. You are a troll and haven't really applied anywhere
2. Your resume is written absolutely terribly
3. You have made a terrible name for yourself.
None of those situations are correct.

EVAS was hiring applicants from India and Mexico last fall, maybe they are more suited for their ops.
I'm quite familiar with the things that are going on at EVAS. Trust me, if you haven't been called with the experience you say you have (unless it's 5000hrs in a 152) it has nothing to do with foreign pilots.
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