xsbank wrote:Right seat on a Caravan? Is that a joke? Is that what they do to you, make you swamp on a Caravan instead of working the ramp? That's a promotion? You can't log that. Is there a column for single-pilot copilot?
You don't learn by watching, you learn by doing! If you are in the Caravan and "the pilot" is in the right seat, fair enough. Otherwise, I have to praise our operators for their creativity and their ability to find new ways to get guys to wash the hangar floor.
Good luck with that.
Wasaya has been doing that for the past 10+ years actually. I remember flying out of YRL back in 04ish and they were doing this long before that.
A good example of how many dumb pilots have been sucked in by this questionable operation.
As xsbank says....you CANT log it! It's useles. The Caravan is a SINGLE pilot aircraft. If you think this is a career move, give your head a shake m
Illya
The PC12 is a single pilot aircraft but you can log co-pilot time on it if it is required to be operated 2 crew in your COM. Transport counts that time. Not sure if the van is the same with that regard though.
The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm
Well Illya has many valid points, I like people like him because they are very harsh on the reality, and things he says makes you really wonder what is what, which in turn should be able to point you in the right direction. Although it might be information you want to interpret for your own sake...
As for me, I would rather ride along in the van for a year and learn a thing or two about real flying outside of my narrow scope than . bags in hope of a co-jo seat on something a little heavier. At the end of the day, I personally got into this industry to fly...in whatever means of flying it could be. If it means paying my dues in a right seat of a single engine/single pilot aircraft and nothing else is up on the table to choose from, well let it be then. Because at the end of the day I will do something I enjoy and I will learn a thing or two in the process. I have big dreams too, I believe to deserve a bit more than that seat, but at the end of the day, I have nothing special to offer in flight experience.
Let's keep this thread on topic, as my last few days are counting down before I set off, and I will slightly steal it from the original poster and will update you guys on my adventure. Just got a set of winter tires installed today, finishing printing out a bunch of resumes and really having a struggle on the route. My issue is deciding how to include Moosonee on the trip, without wasting useful days (Deadline for me to return is 14th of March) and I have a mindset of dropping into Wolverine Air as well, which is quite some country ahead of me. So far, my though is to hit up Moosonee on Monday or Tuesday morning (I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE SOMEONE TO PITCH IN SOME EXPERIENCE WITH GOING THERE, SHOULD I PLAN AN OVERNIGHT? OR IS THERE ANY WAY TO MAKE IT ON THE RETURN TRIP ON THE TRAIN? FROM MEMORY ONLY FEW HOURS IN BETWEEN THERE) after that, drive to Thunder Bay, spend a day there (Wasaya, Air Bravo, Private Air, Thunder Airlines....any more suggestions??) Then onto Sioux and Red Lake for the next day....after that I am still unclear where I should set my sails to...
Diadem wrote:The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm
If you fly with me mate, you can log it all as PIC! I have enough thanks. LOLA!
Illya
You know that old chestnut about taxation being the art of plucking the goose without it hissing? That is precisely the process going on here. These outfits will work you hard for as long as they can before you start hissing or you quit. They won't train the locals to be rampies because they won't work for as little money or for as many hours as a Wannabe will.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't try this route or accept an entry-level job, but make sure you are hired as a pilot-in-training, not a rampie. If they don't talk to you about their plan to check you out as a pilot, watch out.
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
So, I have been spending countless nights awake trying to find the magic route, but with all the places I want to go to, it just does not work. I have a little over two weeks and departing from Toronto no later than Monday morning...meaning I could be at Thunder Bay by Tuesday am and ready to visit places. What would you guys recommend I cut out from this trip? Fort Simpson, Yellowknife, Whitehorse? Vancouver? Edmonton? I have a very hard deciding how far to venture, and really is there a point to go out to Whitehorse to visit one or two potential operators, while killing 60+ hours of driving.... I could really use some help here
I'm not sure there will be much available to you west of Calgary, but maybe 1 or 2 operators in the lower mainland? Definitely go North to Yellowknife, but again, I think Whitehorse probably isn't worth the time, unless you were going to fly and even then, the operators I know of up there generally look for more flight time than what you have to offer.
Thanks for the advice and that is where I have a struggle. I am going out this far, and I feel bad not to take the extra time to get here and there, but then you end up covering the whole country with that mentality and that is just not possible in my time frame. I will rule out Whitehorse and Fort Simpson for now out of trip. Its a lot of km for a very few operators. Vancouver is out too, because I do not think I stand a chance against the local pool of pilots.
Now the big decision to make is do I go to Moosonee first? Or leave for a later date as a stand alone trip? Go instead straight to Thunder Bay and Sioux and Pickle Lake and area there, onto MB, SK, AB? Or do I take the time to make my first stop at Moosonee? Can someone please shed some light on Wabusk and Bushland with recent info, more so regarding people randomly showing up at the front steps?
Anyone willing to pitch in any info in my case for dropping into Bearskin, Calm Air and WestWind? Do these companies ever hire low timers? I read some stuff, and from the sound it was not known for anyone with low time to get in. Any recent info will be appreciated. I guess it does not hurt to talk to someone for future sake, but in any case I do not want to look silly coming into places that I am deff not qualified for.
Bearskin is hard up on their 1000hrs now. Westwind will hire low timers however there is no seniority. They will put you to work on the ground with no guarantee that you will fly. There are some rampies that are still waiting after two years. I dont know much about Calm Air
I know this topic is polarizing and I'm not here to debate the finer points about entry-level flying jobs, however I feel that some of the responses in this thread are wholly unhelpful to the original poster. Regarding entry-level jobs in NWO, the larger 703/704/705 operators IN GENERAL require between 500-1000TT, and this is partly due to the contract requirements for Hydro, medevacs, etc. I personally know people who have who have been hired with less. YXL has a number of wheels operators (Northern Skies, SkyCare, North Star) who hire truly low-time pilots, as does Superior in YRL, along with Wasaya in both YRL and YPL. There are a number of float operators scattered between YXL and YRL as well, I know many float guys got started in that part of the province. As for the apparently taboo "ramp" jobs, you'll find varying wait times depending on the company and the base. Superior rampies fly the 182 or whatever it is, and the Navajo right seat. The companies that PPC guys on single-pilot aircraft like the Caravan or the PC12 have a provision in their COMs that allow the logging of time. The training is legit and while you may spend the better part of a year or more dividing flying with chucking cargo you will be flying, the end game is to get you experienced enough to upgrade.
The point is that opportunities can be found at all sizes of company, and your personal experience can vary depending on internal movement, contract requirements, seasons, the market, etc.
the_duck wrote:I know this topic is polarizing and I'm not here to debate the finer points about entry-level flying jobs, however I feel that some of the responses in this thread are wholly unhelpful to the original poster. Regarding entry-level jobs in NWO, the larger 703/704/705 operators IN GENERAL require between 500-1000TT, and this is partly due to the contract requirements for Hydro, medevacs, etc. I personally know people who have who have been hired with less. YXL has a number of wheels operators (Northern Skies, SkyCare, North Star) who hire truly low-time pilots, as does Superior in YRL, along with Wasaya in both YRL and YPL. There are a number of float operators scattered between YXL and YRL as well, I know many float guys got started in that part of the province. As for the apparently taboo "ramp" jobs, you'll find varying wait times depending on the company and the base. Superior rampies fly the 182 or whatever it is, and the Navajo right seat. The companies that PPC guys on single-pilot aircraft like the Caravan or the PC12 have a provision in their COMs that allow the logging of time. The training is legit and while you may spend the better part of a year or more dividing flying with chucking cargo you will be flying, the end game is to get you experienced enough to upgrade.
The point is that opportunities can be found at all sizes of company, and your personal experience can vary depending on internal movement, contract requirements, seasons, the market, etc.
I thought northstar was out of pickle lake not sioux. I do want to check them out does anyone know best place to catch someone from their operation. An update from me, I am not in cochrane waiting on train to moosonee. I had a lot of conflicting advice on going there but I decided to drop in before moving on to thunder and sioux later this week.
Do they usually just hire on the spot or like a week later (when I'm back in Toronto)?
My issue is that I dont have a vehicle so I'm planning to rent one for the trip to NW ON, MB, SK, AB.
