Low-timer Road Trip

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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

flyinhigh wrote:
xsbank wrote:Right seat on a Caravan? Is that a joke? Is that what they do to you, make you swamp on a Caravan instead of working the ramp? That's a promotion? You can't log that. Is there a column for single-pilot copilot?

You don't learn by watching, you learn by doing! If you are in the Caravan and "the pilot" is in the right seat, fair enough. Otherwise, I have to praise our operators for their creativity and their ability to find new ways to get guys to wash the hangar floor.

Good luck with that.
Wasaya has been doing that for the past 10+ years actually. I remember flying out of YRL back in 04ish and they were doing this long before that.
A good example of how many dumb pilots have been sucked in by this questionable operation.
As xsbank says....you CANT log it! It's useles. The Caravan is a SINGLE pilot aircraft. If you think this is a career move, give your head a shake m
Illya
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FlyHigh13
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by FlyHigh13 »

The PC12 is a single pilot aircraft but you can log co-pilot time on it if it is required to be operated 2 crew in your COM. Transport counts that time. Not sure if the van is the same with that regard though.
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Diadem
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by Diadem »

The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

Well Illya has many valid points, I like people like him because they are very harsh on the reality, and things he says makes you really wonder what is what, which in turn should be able to point you in the right direction. Although it might be information you want to interpret for your own sake...

As for me, I would rather ride along in the van for a year and learn a thing or two about real flying outside of my narrow scope than . bags in hope of a co-jo seat on something a little heavier. At the end of the day, I personally got into this industry to fly...in whatever means of flying it could be. If it means paying my dues in a right seat of a single engine/single pilot aircraft and nothing else is up on the table to choose from, well let it be then. Because at the end of the day I will do something I enjoy and I will learn a thing or two in the process. I have big dreams too, I believe to deserve a bit more than that seat, but at the end of the day, I have nothing special to offer in flight experience.

Let's keep this thread on topic, as my last few days are counting down before I set off, and I will slightly steal it from the original poster and will update you guys on my adventure. Just got a set of winter tires installed today, finishing printing out a bunch of resumes and really having a struggle on the route. My issue is deciding how to include Moosonee on the trip, without wasting useful days (Deadline for me to return is 14th of March) and I have a mindset of dropping into Wolverine Air as well, which is quite some country ahead of me. So far, my though is to hit up Moosonee on Monday or Tuesday morning (I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE SOMEONE TO PITCH IN SOME EXPERIENCE WITH GOING THERE, SHOULD I PLAN AN OVERNIGHT? OR IS THERE ANY WAY TO MAKE IT ON THE RETURN TRIP ON THE TRAIN? FROM MEMORY ONLY FEW HOURS IN BETWEEN THERE) after that, drive to Thunder Bay, spend a day there (Wasaya, Air Bravo, Private Air, Thunder Airlines....any more suggestions??) Then onto Sioux and Red Lake for the next day....after that I am still unclear where I should set my sails to...
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Diadem wrote:The King Air is a single-pilot aircraft too. I wonder if Illya has informed his co-pilots that they can't log their time...
Other single-pilot aircraft include the Twin Otter, the Beech 1900, most Metros, the Navajo, and the list goes on. Here are the only two-crew aircraft, as designated by TC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm
If you fly with me mate, you can log it all as PIC! I have enough thanks. LOLA!
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Scudrunner703
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by Scudrunner703 »

Stop by Cochrane airport. Skywrench aviation does the maintenance for both Moosonee outfits. You might catch someone there. Good luck.
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powerbrian
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by powerbrian »

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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

For Wasaya, do you go to the airport office? Or do you go to their main office in town? Can anyone pitch any info on this?
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FlyingMonkey
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by FlyingMonkey »

YQT Airport office for Wasaya. That's where the CP's office is located.
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

FlyingMonkey wrote:YQT Airport office for Wasaya. That's where the CP's office is located.
Thank you!
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xsbank
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by xsbank »

You know that old chestnut about taxation being the art of plucking the goose without it hissing? That is precisely the process going on here. These outfits will work you hard for as long as they can before you start hissing or you quit. They won't train the locals to be rampies because they won't work for as little money or for as many hours as a Wannabe will.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try this route or accept an entry-level job, but make sure you are hired as a pilot-in-training, not a rampie. If they don't talk to you about their plan to check you out as a pilot, watch out.
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

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So, I have been spending countless nights awake trying to find the magic route, but with all the places I want to go to, it just does not work. I have a little over two weeks and departing from Toronto no later than Monday morning...meaning I could be at Thunder Bay by Tuesday am and ready to visit places. What would you guys recommend I cut out from this trip? Fort Simpson, Yellowknife, Whitehorse? Vancouver? Edmonton? I have a very hard deciding how far to venture, and really is there a point to go out to Whitehorse to visit one or two potential operators, while killing 60+ hours of driving.... I could really use some help here
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by cdnpilot77 »

I'm not sure there will be much available to you west of Calgary, but maybe 1 or 2 operators in the lower mainland? Definitely go North to Yellowknife, but again, I think Whitehorse probably isn't worth the time, unless you were going to fly and even then, the operators I know of up there generally look for more flight time than what you have to offer.
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

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Thanks for the advice and that is where I have a struggle. I am going out this far, and I feel bad not to take the extra time to get here and there, but then you end up covering the whole country with that mentality and that is just not possible in my time frame. I will rule out Whitehorse and Fort Simpson for now out of trip. Its a lot of km for a very few operators. Vancouver is out too, because I do not think I stand a chance against the local pool of pilots.

Now the big decision to make is do I go to Moosonee first? Or leave for a later date as a stand alone trip? Go instead straight to Thunder Bay and Sioux and Pickle Lake and area there, onto MB, SK, AB? Or do I take the time to make my first stop at Moosonee? Can someone please shed some light on Wabusk and Bushland with recent info, more so regarding people randomly showing up at the front steps?
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

Anyone willing to pitch in any info in my case for dropping into Bearskin, Calm Air and WestWind? Do these companies ever hire low timers? I read some stuff, and from the sound it was not known for anyone with low time to get in. Any recent info will be appreciated. I guess it does not hurt to talk to someone for future sake, but in any case I do not want to look silly coming into places that I am deff not qualified for.

Thanks

GD
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powerbrian
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by powerbrian »

Bearskin is hard up on their 1000hrs now. Westwind will hire low timers however there is no seniority. They will put you to work on the ground with no guarantee that you will fly. There are some rampies that are still waiting after two years. I dont know much about Calm Air

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the_duck
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by the_duck »

I know this topic is polarizing and I'm not here to debate the finer points about entry-level flying jobs, however I feel that some of the responses in this thread are wholly unhelpful to the original poster. Regarding entry-level jobs in NWO, the larger 703/704/705 operators IN GENERAL require between 500-1000TT, and this is partly due to the contract requirements for Hydro, medevacs, etc. I personally know people who have who have been hired with less. YXL has a number of wheels operators (Northern Skies, SkyCare, North Star) who hire truly low-time pilots, as does Superior in YRL, along with Wasaya in both YRL and YPL. There are a number of float operators scattered between YXL and YRL as well, I know many float guys got started in that part of the province. As for the apparently taboo "ramp" jobs, you'll find varying wait times depending on the company and the base. Superior rampies fly the 182 or whatever it is, and the Navajo right seat. The companies that PPC guys on single-pilot aircraft like the Caravan or the PC12 have a provision in their COMs that allow the logging of time. The training is legit and while you may spend the better part of a year or more dividing flying with chucking cargo you will be flying, the end game is to get you experienced enough to upgrade.

The point is that opportunities can be found at all sizes of company, and your personal experience can vary depending on internal movement, contract requirements, seasons, the market, etc.
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

the_duck wrote:I know this topic is polarizing and I'm not here to debate the finer points about entry-level flying jobs, however I feel that some of the responses in this thread are wholly unhelpful to the original poster. Regarding entry-level jobs in NWO, the larger 703/704/705 operators IN GENERAL require between 500-1000TT, and this is partly due to the contract requirements for Hydro, medevacs, etc. I personally know people who have who have been hired with less. YXL has a number of wheels operators (Northern Skies, SkyCare, North Star) who hire truly low-time pilots, as does Superior in YRL, along with Wasaya in both YRL and YPL. There are a number of float operators scattered between YXL and YRL as well, I know many float guys got started in that part of the province. As for the apparently taboo "ramp" jobs, you'll find varying wait times depending on the company and the base. Superior rampies fly the 182 or whatever it is, and the Navajo right seat. The companies that PPC guys on single-pilot aircraft like the Caravan or the PC12 have a provision in their COMs that allow the logging of time. The training is legit and while you may spend the better part of a year or more dividing flying with chucking cargo you will be flying, the end game is to get you experienced enough to upgrade.

The point is that opportunities can be found at all sizes of company, and your personal experience can vary depending on internal movement, contract requirements, seasons, the market, etc.

I thought northstar was out of pickle lake not sioux. I do want to check them out does anyone know best place to catch someone from their operation. An update from me, I am not in cochrane waiting on train to moosonee. I had a lot of conflicting advice on going there but I decided to drop in before moving on to thunder and sioux later this week.
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the_duck
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by the_duck »

You are correct, the North Star/Cargo North base is in YPL. Also when I referred to C208 and PC12 PPCs, I meant PCCs.
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by chapfo »

I'm considering doing this too in spring.

Do they usually just hire on the spot or like a week later (when I'm back in Toronto)?
My issue is that I dont have a vehicle so I'm planning to rent one for the trip to NW ON, MB, SK, AB.
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

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chapfo wrote:I'm considering doing this too in spring.

Do they usually just hire on the spot or like a week later (when I'm back in Toronto)?
My issue is that I dont have a vehicle so I'm planning to rent one for the trip to NW ON, MB, SK, AB.
I am not yet an expert on this, but I am as far as Winnipeg right now. I did not have anyone offer anything yet, but everyone so far gave me a few minutes of their time. I would not go as far as AB, my friends that live there are calling for tough times (lay offs, slow down in business, etc) That being said, I gathered that I am a few weeks early on this trip, most northern companies seem to pick up in the spring when winter roads melt. But that's because my circumstances would not allow me to take the trip at a later date. I think that you might be better of flying into most places, because if you factor in the cost of rental car on top of gas/hotel/food, it would probably run you a similar amount, but will save you from the boredom/risks of driving countless hours day and night. I left on Monday at 21:00 and so far been to Moosonee, Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout, Winnipeg. It is exhausting driving all the hours, and then slapping yourself in a face a couple times to regain some awareness to go and meet people and seem somewhat not retarded lol. If you are driving from Toronto, Moosonee is accessible by bus and train. Would probably cost you around $250 return as a stand alone trip. Then you could shop for a deal to Thunder Bay on Porter/AC/WJ and get there and drive to Sioux on rental car which will not cost you that much, about 4 hours drive one way. So daily rental around $35 plus a tank of gas. Winnipeg/Saskatoon you could do when the price is right on flights. If I did it all over again, I would do this. Keep in mind, I am not really stopping by float operators, as most people are not in town yet or out on shows. So if you're going on a later date, you will have MANY MANY MANY more places to visit and then in that case, driving would be the only option.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by jspitfire »

cdnpilot77 wrote:I'm not sure there will be much available to you west of Calgary, but maybe 1 or 2 operators in the lower mainland? Definitely go North to Yellowknife, but again, I think Whitehorse probably isn't worth the time, unless you were going to fly and even then, the operators I know of up there generally look for more flight time than what you have to offer.
Just an FYI, in Yellowknife you'll find only ramp jobs. Summit, Buffalo and Tindi all start guys on the ramp. The only possible exception would be Adlair. (Based in Cambridge Bay but they have a hangar in Yellowknife.)
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

jspitfire wrote:
cdnpilot77 wrote:I'm not sure there will be much available to you west of Calgary, but maybe 1 or 2 operators in the lower mainland? Definitely go North to Yellowknife, but again, I think Whitehorse probably isn't worth the time, unless you were going to fly and even then, the operators I know of up there generally look for more flight time than what you have to offer.
Just an FYI, in Yellowknife you'll find only ramp jobs. Summit, Buffalo and Tindi all start guys on the ramp. The only possible exception would be Adlair. (Based in Cambridge Bay but they have a hangar in Yellowknife.)

Well so far in my travels, I have pretty much encountered the same story with everyone that I visited except for Keystone and Bushland. I am fully aware of what has been written and said about Keystone, however I was in the airport there anyways today and paid them a visit to see their operation first hand. I did not get to see much to comment on anything at all, except I met the CP there and he told me that they will be looking for a Navajo co-jo/Rampie. So even though you will be ramping you will be logging time as well. I am not quite sure if I ever went to work there, I guess it will depend on the turn out of my trip, but I have heard from even talking to CPs around the country to steer clear of this operation. So I am not sure I would want that on my resume. You only get to make your resume once, so got to be aware of all the "dangers"

I have visited most places in MB today and decided to stay the weekend here. As the weekend is not really a time to do business, I am just going to sit back and relax, take some notes on my trip so far and do some more research.

Also, if anyone here has already figured out who I am, I want to thank everyone so far that I visited. I felt extremely welcomed and has been given great advice. I never expected for people to be so open and to give me that much of their time in the middle of their day to day duties. I must say that our group of aviators in Canada is top notch and I cannot wait to be a part of it! Thanks again guys!!!

GD
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

GD
You know you can post without the quote feature....right?
Illya
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Low-timer Road Trip

Post by glorifieddriver »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:GD
You know you can post without the quote feature....right?
Illya
Thanks for the tip :lol: I guess it does get annoying...my bad! And I am doing it this time just to poke at you a bit! No hard feelings..

GD
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