Pilot-In-Waiting

[shimmydampner]

https://youtu.be/TyJL17O4Tf8

[JohnnyHotRocks]

After getting my CPL I still could have taken numerous jobs outside of aviation, in numerous fields, all paid well over 60k and that was over 6 years ago.

What???? You got your cpl six years ago? By all means, please continue to share your vast experience and job searching tips!

[SuperchargedRS]

About that, yeah.

Are you saying you need decades in the industry to know how to find a job, or to know working for the promise (as in half azz verbal promise) of a job is a bad idea?
You're not actually saying pilots need decades of experience to figure this stuff out, stuff that most anyone with a ounce of common sense, could tell you?

But hey, I might not have been doing this for decades but I got enough hours and letters on my ticket to qualify for most jobs if needed, currently working a comfy single pilot job, flying good equipment, plenty of time off and I make enough to do what I want to do, no debt and a few toys to boot. You're right, never chucked bags to get here ether, I must be doing this whole aviation thing all wrong.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

You were still drinking from your mamas tit back when you needed 3500hrs just for an interview for right seat on a bearskin metro. And forget about getting an AC interview without 5000hrs! Count yourself lucky. There were times when finding that first job was REALLY tough...

[Roar]

There were times when finding that first job was REALLY tough...

I can attest to that, I remember looking for my first job when to get a position as a Navajo Captain one needed 5,000 hrs. King Air drivers where 20 years in and to fly a corporate jet, well only grey backs could get those jobs.

Fact is nothing has changed in terms of breaking into aviation whether it be 1932 or 2016, it's always been a difficult task and will remain so. There are cycles of time where its less difficult than others but never easy. The simple truth is that not everyone that dreams and sets out for a career as a pilot will make it.

I don't agree with pilot-in-waiting programs as the company has far to large of a hammer over youngster looking to follow their dream. I also don't agree with other posters here that they should not work in a non pilot position in aviation. There is lots of advantages to staying in aviation as one works toward that coveted pilot seat, such as networking and building friendships that will pay off later in your career.

[atphat]

Another silly thread. Do what is best for you. I worked the ramp as a "pilot in waiting". Thank goodness I did.

edit....i now read the entire thread...and i have this to say....

to the newbies starting out. People love to tell you what you should and shouldn't do in this industry. Someone like Illya coming on here and pretty much calling you trash for accepting an entry level position into this industry. Just sound foolish. I mean...what would Illya really know about this "industry". He is a pilot of advanced age flying into places such as Red Lake, Pickle Lake, and the metropolis of Sioux Lookout. I'm not bashing the lifers in the bush but they represent a fraction of this "industry".

Its easy to get on the computer and espouse wisdom of what others should do. as Illya does.

As i sit in the high flight levels cruising around the globe...do I ever regret working the ramp? Never. Its a great industry for those who do what is necessary. The naysayers are usually the bitter ones.

DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.

that is all

[JohnnyHotRocks]

What he said^^^

[SuperchargedRS]

But working a unskilled labor job is NOT a entry level CPL job, flying a small plane is a CPL entry level job.

And as for your "advanced age" bush pilot comment about the other guy, frankly we all should be so lucky to still be doing real flying and still have he passion, not just watching George in FLs, if I could get a job flying floats that had the same sched and pay as my current job is be on it in a NY minute.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Supercharged, one day you will wish to advance your career. If you are like most Canadian pilots, this will involve a desire to go to the airlines. You will take a job at Georgian, Jazz, Encore or Sky Regional because that is the only way to AC or WJ. Judging by your other posts you will certainly take a pay cut. Others on AvCanada will then begin to blame you for the downward spiral of aviation. It will be YOUR fault that the pay at the regionals sucks. If pilots like YOU just stood up for yourselves and said no to those wages, they would have to pay more. The thing is, you will be able to rationalize it to yourself. You will tell yourself that it is a means to an end. It is what you have to do to make it to the airlines, you will tell yourself.
When this happens, and I am willing to bet that it will, please re-read what you have said to those low timers who are trying to further (or start) their aviation careers.

[Sierra Nevada]

Seriously, why would any company pay more to hire a local, when they could just hire a low-time pilot instead? Conversely, why would any low-time pilot take a non-aviation job, when their buddies who went the PIW way are now actually flying?

The reality is, there are simply too many low-time pilots to the number of entry-level jobs. Sure, some might be able to walk straight into a flying gig, but for the majority, the math just isn't in their favour.

So what do we do?

Well for starters, we can address some clear issues that will actually make a difference, like: why are taxpayers still subsidizing schools like Sault, Confed, Seneca, etc.? or, why can LITERALLY ANYONE with a reasonable IQ and dexterity get a CPL?

[goingnowherefast]

Conversely, why would any low-time pilot take a non-aviation job, when their buddies who went the PIW way are now actually flying?

Some companies use the pilot-in-waiting idea to dangle the idea of flying to attract overqualified cheap labour. Then make them work for 2 years with no chance of flying until the, now bitter, individual quits. Now they renews their IFR and have to start all over again. Not all pilot-in-waiting programs are this bad, some actually work pretty well. Most are pure abuse. It's just really hard to spot the difference when you are 19 and believe the world actually cares about you.

Jazz and Encore are doing a similar thing, except this time the carrot is a mainline job, and the pay is 15% less for new hires.

[robert692]

As a student about to graduate this spring I was really happy to read this thread. I've never liked the idea of working a Ramp job with 70,000 dollars worth of Pilot Training debt. I feel like I should be able to find some sort of flying job. However they kind of make you feel like you have to go earn it from the company first ('they' being instructors and teachers and general industry feel). when I tell people I want to start flying right away they usually wanna know what makes me so special that i think i can walk into a flying spot. Now I'm starting to think maybe strictly wanting a flying job is what makes me special and will help set me apart from the rest of my Class.

[Blueontop]

The pendulum of power is starting to swing finally in our favor, I have seen some pretty amazing things happen that would have been unthinkable even 5-10 years ago. To any newly minted CPL holder I strongly encourage to not set your sights so low when there is so much opportunity out there right now(add to the fact we are in middle of hiring season!). I myself was in a somewhat desperate situation a year and half ago and so much has changed even since then! Exhaust all other options before taking that ramp job and then even if you do don't stop looking and networking. I know it's a tough industry out there so only the ones with blind determination will be the ones who succeed in the end.

[awitzke]

when I tell people I want to start flying right away they usually wanna know what makes me so special that i think i can walk into a flying spot. Now I'm starting to think maybe strictly wanting a flying job is what makes me special and will help set me apart from the rest of my Class.

People said the same to me. Low and behold I found a job (a great one btw) and a year later, multi captain, 1000 hours. It's doable just give yourself a goal and try to meet it. I turned down 3 ramp jobs on a 6 week road trip, like you had the goal to fly.