Atpl question

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Pt6-42
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Atpl question

Post by Pt6-42 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:36 am

my plan is to right my A's around 1000tt if i get onto a 705 machine and two years goes by before i get all the hours required will i have to write my tests again, or is it locked in since im on a real two crew machine?
Thanks pt6
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Adam Oke
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Adam Oke » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:16 am

I was told by both Hamilton and Toronto offices that if you get a type rating using the SAMRON, and SAMRA that it will freeze the exams.
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Pt6-42
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Pt6-42 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:37 am

Awesome thxs
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PositiveRate27
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Re: Atpl question

Post by PositiveRate27 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:44 am

Adam Oke wrote:I was told by both Hamilton and Toronto offices that if you get a type rating using the SAMRON, and SAMRA that it will freeze the exams.
Just use caution as aircraft such as the BE02 are now considered single pilot by TC and the right seat checkout wont freeze the exams anymore.
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Adam Oke
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Adam Oke » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:46 pm

In addition, if you get a type rating using the IATRA, and then you proceed to write your SAMRON, and SAMRA then the exam's will expire. You need to do a type rating using the exams when they are valid in the 24 month period. This is also the case if you only have one written, use the IATRA, and then write the other one later.

Essentially, ensure you have both exams written prior to a type rating and they will freeze. Only use the IATRA if you're in a bind.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:55 pm

You're telling me a 1900 PPC (Transport Category type rating) doesn't freeze the exams anymore?

When did that come into effect?

S.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Grey_Wolf » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:06 am

schnitzel2k3 wrote:When did that come into effect?
Jan 1, 2015

High Performance Aeroplane Type Rating:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 7-1396.htm

Two Crew Aeroplanes:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:01 pm

According to TC, nothing freezes the exams. If you want to apply for ATPL you need to have exams written in past two. years. Type ratings make NO difference. Two different regional offices told me this recently.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by lownslow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:14 pm

Just fly 500 hours in under two years. It isn’t hard.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:08 pm

That will depend on getting a job. People who have them always seem to think it's a given, but believe me, it is not.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:46 pm

That will depend on getting a job. People who have them always seem to think it's a given, but believe me, it is not.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by lownslow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:32 pm

ayseven wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:08 pm
That will depend on getting a job. People who have them always seem to think it's a given, but believe me, it is not.
True, it’s not a given but there are also plenty of openings all over the country right now. Come at any reasonably appropriate job with honesty, humility, and some baseline skill right now and it ought to just about be in the bag. That and the OP had planned on writing their AAs while already employed at a 705 where it should be reasonably easy to fly at least 250 hours a year. If you know a place where you can make a decent living on less work I’m all ears.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by the-minister31 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:15 am

ayseven wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:01 pm
According to TC, nothing freezes the exams. If you want to apply for ATPL you need to have exams written in past two. years. Type ratings make NO difference. Two different regional offices told me this recently.
I don't know who you talked to but that is not correct. From the CARs :

400.03 (1) Subject to subsection (3), written examinations, including all sections of a sectionalized examination, that are required for the issuance of a permit or licence or for the endorsement of a permit or licence with a rating shall be completed during the 24-month period preceding the date of the application for the permit, licence or rating.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of examinations that are required for the issuance of

(b) an airline transport pilot licence if examinations were previously written
(i) for the endorsement of a type rating, a mark of 70 per cent or higher was obtained on the examination and the type rating was issued;
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:10 pm

Well that was exactly what two different people, at two different times told me over the phone. I think perhaps they consider each case on its own merits according to their interpretation.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by the-minister31 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:24 pm

ayseven wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:10 pm
Well that was exactly what two different people, at two different times told me over the phone. I think perhaps they consider each case on its own merits according to their interpretation.
Classic TC! I just don't understand how else they can interpret that rule... :lol:
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Re: Atpl question

Post by firstofficer » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:41 pm

ayseven wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:10 pm
Well that was exactly what two different people, at two different times told me over the phone. I think perhaps they consider each case on its own merits according to their interpretation.
I’m not surprised. I once had two TC inspectors contradict each other over an hour requirement written in crystal clear English.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by leftoftrack » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 am

You're confusing what gets frozen. The IATRA or both The SARON and SAMRON will freeze the ability to act as a co-pilot indefinitely when coupled with a type rating on a 2 crew airplane. to upgrade the license to a ATPL the exams must be written within 24 months of meeting all requirements for the ATPL and having your logbook submitted. The 1900 is not a transport category aircraft its a commuter catagory. also, the D model is certified single pilot where as the C model is only certified as a 2 crew aircraft, so the C will freeze your IATRA where the D won't.
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ayseven
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:49 pm

Well i have two type ratings on over 12,500 and they still said the exams were expired. The whole point of them was for eventual Atpl. There was no Iatra then. Anyhoo, no big deal to do them again. Good for review.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:10 pm

leftoftrack wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 am
You're confusing what gets frozen. The IATRA or both The SARON and SAMRON will freeze the ability to act as a co-pilot indefinitely when coupled with a type rating on a 2 crew airplane. to upgrade the license to a ATPL the exams must be written within 24 months of meeting all requirements for the ATPL and having your logbook submitted. The 1900 is not a transport category aircraft its a commuter catagory. also, the D model is certified single pilot where as the C model is only certified as a 2 crew aircraft, so the C will freeze your IATRA where the D won't.
No, no and no. Pretty much all that you wrote was wrong. All 1900 models are not two crew and do not require exams of any kind for PIC or SIC. Whether they can be operated single pilot is a completely different issue.

A lot of the CARs are poorly worded or ambiguous, but this is crystal clear. Read 400.03 and 421.40.

You always must have written the exams in the past 2 years for the first two crew type rating, or 5 years for an integrated course. After you have the type rating you never have to write another exam.

The exam time limit waver is for the application for an ATPL (or student PL) only, not type ratings.

Specifically (in plain english):
(1)Exams for a license, permit or rating must be passed in the 24 months preceding the application
(2)The exam time limit in (1) does not apply
...(b)for the issuance of an ATPL if exams were written
......(i) for a two crew type rating, passed and was issued
......(ii) for a senior commercial pilot license, were passed and SCPL was issued
......(iii) for the ATPL and passed in the past 5 years as part of an integrated course that was also passed

Notice in part (i) they don't specify the exam. If you really read it carefully it actually implies that if you got a two crew type rating with an IATRA the ATPL exam time limit is still waved.

(i)Exams for type rating (exams are only required for two crew): IATRA or SARON and SAMRA
(ii)Exams for SCPL: whatever those were
(iii)Exams for ATPL: SARON and SAMRA
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Last edited by Cleared4TheOption on Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Atpl question

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:15 pm

ayseven wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:49 pm
Well i have two type ratings on over 12,500 and they still said the exams were expired. The whole point of them was for eventual Atpl. There was no Iatra then. Anyhoo, no big deal to do them again. Good for review.
The person you were dealing with just doesn't know the regs properly and is too lazy to look it up. You literally would have to present the relevant regs to them.

On a related note, my CAME didn't know that if you renew your medical 90 days before the expiry, the date of expiry remains the same. Never assume that just because you think someone SHOULD know a regulation as part of their job, that they actually DO.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by ayseven » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:02 pm

True that. In my case, the exams were done for the old Senior Commercial, which I had until very recently when they got rid if it, so MAY be in the clear. But I take nothing for granted with TC.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Chaxterium » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:12 am

leftoftrack wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 am
to upgrade the license to a ATPL the exams must be written within 24 months of meeting all requirements for the ATPL and having your logbook submitted.
This is not true if you wrote the exams FOR THE PURPOSE of obtaining a two-crew type rating, and then got that two-crew type rating. I wrote my exams in 2008. A month later I added a Dash 7 type rating to my licence. I then got my ATPL signed off five years later. Didn't have to re-write anything.

Talk to Sharon Chandler in Hamilton. She will clear it up for you.

sharon.chandler@tc.gc.ca

She's one of the good guys. Knows her shit and is very helpful.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:07 am

Chaxterium wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:12 am
leftoftrack wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 am
to upgrade the license to a ATPL the exams must be written within 24 months of meeting all requirements for the ATPL and having your logbook submitted.
This is not true if you wrote the exams FOR THE PURPOSE of obtaining a two-crew type rating, and then got that two-crew type rating. I wrote my exams in 2008. A month later I added a Dash 7 type rating to my licence. I then got my ATPL signed off five years later. Didn't have to re-write anything.

Talk to Sharon Chandler in Hamilton. She will clear it up for you.

sharon.chandler@tc.gc.ca

She's one of the good guys. Knows her shit and is very helpful.
Poor girl is going to have an inbox full of nonsense that she's going to have to answer now! Hehe.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Axial Flow » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 am

As stated above, it is 24 months or 5 years with integrated. In my case it was 4 years since I wrote and they issued the type rating on an IATRA so it all depends on who you get processing your license.
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Re: Atpl question

Post by Chaxterium » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:35 am

Axial Flow wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 am
As stated above, it is 24 months or 5 years with integrated. In my case it was 4 years since I wrote and they issued the type rating on an IATRA so it all depends on who you get processing your license.
It doesn't depend though. The regs are very clear on the matter. The ATPL exams are valid for two years (five years for integrated as you mentioned). But, if you wrote the exams, and then got a type rating on a two-crew aircraft shortly thereafter, then the exams do not expire. If it takes you 10 years from that point to fulfill the time requirements for the ATPL, so be it. The exams are still valid.
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