92k for first year capt? Who the hell is taking these positions? You just have to shake your head. Anyone that takes such a position is personally partially responsible for the downfall of this industry.

Probably closer to $45k, wp....6 months, or 500 hours, and then it’s off to China for big bucks..

soooo..

I have a few question for someone who is a New Captain at Swoop.


I have a friend who is currently doing Line indoc and he told me with Ontario Tax he brings home 2758.00 twice a month.. that is after Tax without perdiem or Overtime.

is That salary enough to pay for all your Bill's, possibly sustain a family and enjoy a holiday during the year.

my other question is, why are these Captain salaries soo Low.. and why do you accept them.

I'm asking only on a fact finding mission and trying to understand the Market and the Mentality of Canadian Aviation.

Thanks in Advance

Nomoreexpat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:47 pm soooo..

I have a few question for someone who is a New Captain at Swoop.


I have a friend who is currently doing Line indoc and he told me with Ontario Tax he brings home 2758.00 twice a month.. that is after Tax without perdiem or Overtime.

is That salary enough to pay for all your Bill's, possibly sustain a family and enjoy a holiday during the year.

my other question is, why are these Captain salaries soo Low.. and why do you accept them.

I'm asking only on a fact finding mission and trying to understand the Market and the Mentality of Canadian Aviation.

Thanks in Advance

Let me try explain the Canadian Aviation mentality. A Canadian who walks in front of you at the grocery store while you look at which Aunt Jemima syrup you want to buy will simply say "sorry" for being a split second inconvenience to your view. Canadians will not strike or have a huge uproar, because, well that is very "un-Canadian" like. God forbid you offend any snowflakes here in Canada... I was offered the idea a 705 captain job that I turned down simply because I did not think it was paid well enough and that was honestly my answer to the CP. The last potential strike I can recall was the other year when a few Westjet pilots went picketing outside the WJ headquarters in order to get a fair contract. In my opinion, this got more media attention the actual purpose of the picketing for their contract..

That salary you mention reflects a roughly 90k a year salary which is very low compared to any other Boeing captain in the world. Its an insultingly low figure. I made more than that flying a clapped out King Air back in the day. To answer your question, I will assume your friend lives in Hamilton. The average rent is around $1350 or $1500 for a two bedroom. A normal financial rule of thumb is to not spend more than 30% on cost of living. So this is "doable" depending in what kind of accommodation you want to live in.

But, lets run some very rough numbers and look at an average cost of a house in Hamilton as per google. $584k so lets say the minimum of a first home buyers down payment of $30k (5%). The rest of the mortage over 25 year period (554k) would run you aprox. $1850 mortage payment a month. add on utilities, property tax etc you are looking at around $2300 a month of your after tax income required to pay your living cost. As mentioned, your costs should run you no more than 30% of your income, which means you should not spend more than about $1700 on your costs. This means you are spending about $600 a month more on your living costs with that income compared to what you should be if you want to be financially smart. So to answer your question, no it is not viable and it would be difficult to pay for bills with a Swoop capt salary. Don't forget, Hamilton is one of the more affordable areas in the country.

The pilots that take these positions and accept them are either younger individuals who have the shiny jet syndrome and still live with roommates, or pilots from overseas wanting to move back to Canada but couldn't justify an FO wage to support their family, or those who want jet PIC experience in order to go overseas and get paid what we should be in that position. The problem is that there is not a lot of competition and enough pressure in the Canadian industry to warrant a hike in wage to be at the same level as other similar positions in the world. I hope that changes sooner than later-fingers crossed.

The problem is we have a duopoly in control of our wages. There are only 2, 705 players to work for, and they don't like us.

Maybe things will change if the US starts recruiting Canadian Pilots, then AC and WJ will have to increase the salaries.

ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:46 am Maybe things will change if the US starts recruiting Canadian Pilots, then AC and WJ will have to increase the salaries.

AC already has a pretty decent salary on the 737, roughly $230k a year. Problem is those willing to do it for $110k a year.

Knock on AC contract as you wish, it’s still far superior to anything else in this country. The flat salary doesn’t last indefinitely, those soon to be 6-8 months captain will attest to it.

The US unions will never allow Canadian scabs to lower their salaries and rightfully so.
Please stop defending ACs disgraceful payscale.

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:58 am The US unions will never allow Canadian scabs to lower their salaries and rightfully so.
Please stop defending ACs disgraceful payscale.

Who do you work for and how much do you make?

230K... how many years into the left seat is that... just curious? PoopAir is shit... no doubt about. Disgraceful to accept such a low captain salary... garbage... the execs there can suck my Dink

Junior 737 guy is going to be around SN 3800-3900 on the current bid... I think that's someone hired last year. They should do right around or slightly over 200K.

Mid pack 737 CA mid 2s is easy with a bit of OT.

Thanks.. that's pretty damn good. Now Swoop T&Cs.. what a JOKE

Altiplano...you really need to check your “facts”! I’m not going to waste my time telling you how I inaccurate you are regarding SW. You obviously have your mind made up regardless of the truth. I will however get you to ask a Sunwing pilot about their overall experience and their views of the company, I can assure you for the most part they will be positive... it’s not perfect but it’s a great place to work. I know a few guys that have left for big red and it was a very hard decision to leave.

Why are some of the most senior people leaving SW then? And why does AC have dozens of SW applicants right now?

How come an RP at air canada makes more than a 737 captain at swoop?

DutyFree wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:07 pm Altiplano...you really need to check your “facts”! I’m not going to waste my time telling you how I inaccurate you are regarding SW. You obviously have your mind made up regardless of the truth. I will however get you to ask a Sunwing pilot about their overall experience and their views of the company, I can assure you for the most part they will be positive... it’s not perfect but it’s a great place to work. I know a few guys that have left for big red and it was a very hard decision to leave.

I have friends and former colleagues there, I'm sure it's a good spot to work. No place did I say it wasn't. My beef isn't with any Canadians or PRs doing the job. In fact, I'd like to see more Canadians and PRs doing the job

So, if you are going to call me out, please tell me exactly what is inaccurate?

Disagreeing with policies or business practices isn't an inaccuracy, it's a subjective difference of opinion, but an opinion that I back up with fact and reason.

Please read the ALPA statement I posted if your want to understand some of my issues with TFWs, LMOs, and all the rest of it.

snowcone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:29 am How come an RP at air canada makes more than a 737 captain at swoop?

For the same reason a king air or Navajo captain makes more than a captain at encore.
Or, for the same reason someone will leave a $140,000 turboprop job, to make less than half of that as a FO at WJ.