Would you instruct instead ........

[7507]

With everyone talking about how not great the working conditions in terms of schedules at places like Jazz and georgian and others can be if you made a "great enough" salary or wage as a flight instructor and be home every night would you do that instead?

Thanks

[Adam Oke]

I would fly a kite if the wage and sched was "great enough".

[Black_Tusk]

No.

I don't understand what the recent hard on about instructing is all about.

Everyone likes to talk shit about Jazz while they think they're superior huffing barrels around up yonder doing "God's work" and building "character." Well tell ya what, some may like that life but it's not for everyone.

At Jazz a year to a left seat, nearly 100k/yr with a bit of OT is nothing to scoff at. Regardless of what all the nay sayers and keyboard jockeys here say. This life on the contrary to the above may not be for everyone, just like flogging a beaver with 3 moose in the back isn't for me. To each their own, but the regional hate on here is really getting old.

[7507]

I would fly a kite if the wage and sched was "great enough".

I almost pissed my pants , too funny. Yeah I guess you make a valid comment.

[7507]

No.

I don't understand what the recent hard on about instructing is all about.

Everyone likes to talk shit about Jazz while they think they're superior huffing barrels around up yonder doing "God's work" and building "character." Well tell ya what, some may like that life but it's not for everyone.

At Jazz a year to a left seat, nearly 100k/yr with a bit of OT is nothing to scoff at. Regardless of what all the nay sayers and keyboard jockeys here say. This life on the contrary to the above may not be for everyone, just like flogging a beaver with 3 moose in the back isn't for me. To each their own, but the regional hate on here is really getting old.

You make some very valid comments and thanks for that.

I just don't know who or what do believe , shortage no shortage , hating working for jazz or I love working for jazz or any other regional.
Quick upgrade or no it takes a long time, it's hard to believe anything here.

I don't fly for any regional yet but would like to and I'm the person that would be happy flying a dash 8 forever I dont care or even instruct that paid well.

It's all about lifestyle and not always necessary about all the money you can make, I've been there and done that.

I always wondered and call me stupid but how much flying is involved in a 1 day pairing, 2 day pairing and so on.
Appreciate the above statement.

[C.W.E.]

Ab-initio instructing at a FTU in Canada does not pay enough to survive on and with the shortage experienced pilots there will be closures of schools if this trend continues.

Speciality flight training on the other hand can be very rewarding, not only personally but money wise and you are your own boss and can arrange your schedule to fit your own needs.

The drawback is you must have skills that you can market to draw clients to your business.

Flying for the airlines on the other hand is open to anyone who meets the qualifications that the airline requires, which in most cases is far easier to get.

The big plus for airline flying is good pay and reasonable security.

[Black_Tusk]

Don't chase money, it will come in time. Do I look back fondly on my time flying in northern Ontario? Yes. Would I have passed it up to get in with Jazz out of school? Yes. That is because I started flying in my late 20's and knew what I wanted. I wanted to work at Air Canada and I am on the path there and well ahead of my 5 year plan. It was my goal to get on with Jazz as fast as I could, something some people here will say is foolish but I disagree.

Everything happens faster than you think. I am coming up soon on 3 years since finishing flight school and have and ATPL, 2300 hours under my belt, 800MPIC, 900jet, and am going left seat in the next few months. If you have drive and are willing to take risks to get where you want to be, anything is possible.

Don't make any big decisions based on what you read here... Talk to people, make friends.. do more research than reading threads on AvCanada. There are too many sour pusses here and it will give you a cynical and jaded view of the industry because most of the people here are cynical and jaded. Not to mention many of them don't even work at a 705 airline but think they know how it all works. Or they used to 30 years ago and still think they know how it works.

Good luck in making your choices, I know it's hard and what you do now will effect you for a while. The best think I ever did was get in my car and leave the city. There's jobs a plenty if you have a good head on your shoulders and are willing to brave the cold.

[Black_Tusk]

It's all about lifestyle and not always necessary about all the money you can make, I've been there and done that.

If it's about lifestyle, I'll put it this way. After a year at Jazz I was working about 14 days a month with basically every weekend off (maybe one Sat/Sun every 1.5 months) and and got more or less whatever I bid.

I even bid single days back in the fall to try it out, and was in my own bed every night with about 15 days worked that month (8-10 hour duty days) and no weekends.

[SuperchargedRS]

Guess it depends why you got into aviation and if you truly love flying, or just want the easiest way to collect a check, or want to say you fly something big for someone big.

Personally I'd rather instruct compared to doing scheduled airline flying.

If sched and QOL were the same, ideally I'd fly a PA18 off sandbars and floats.

[Black_Tusk]

I personally got into aviation for the long term financial pay off, lifestyle and benefits. Others were aviation kids growing up and that's cool too, but it' wasn't me.

In my late 20's I was bored with what I was doing (paid WAY more than I have made yet flying metal) I looked at career options one could do without a degree and thought giving flying an airplane a shot would be cool. I am a gear head at heart and race cars and ride bikes, so flying a plane I thought would be a good idea. I ended up loving it. But don't go and ask me to point out the cosmetic differences between a 320 and 737 or tell you how old "X" plane is or whatever. I'll learn everything I need to know about the plane I fly and that's good enough for me. It's a job and will always be that way, and I am OK with that.

My life is more than being a pilot. Work to live don't live to work.

[SuperchargedRS]

Lots of easier ways to make more money if that's all you want.


That said, I feel bad for you, we spend waaaay too much of our life times doing our profession to have it be "work".

Personally I love my job, when I'm not at work with the crew I'll often be flying my own plane, so really I don't "work" I just do the stuff I like and get paid, only part that's "work" is a little paperwork administrative crap I have to do sometimes, but that's not even that bad.

So it's not that I live to work or work to live, I just live and get paid for some of it lol

[Black_Tusk]

Don't get me wrong, I love my job. But it isn't my identity. I have other hobbies and interests. Every day when I'm up in the air I look around and couldn't really see myself doing anything else. That being said, it still is just a job.

When I can I plan to buy my own plane for "fun."

[goingnowherefast]

The reason most people are bitter towards the regionals, Jazz specifically, is because of the decreasing WAWCON. Go back 5, 10, 15 years, regional pilots were making more money to do the same job. To make matters worse, regionals are struggling to staff their planes, yet salaries are still decreasing. Jazz has just been around the longest, therefor has the largest decline and is the biggest target. Regional airlines in general are leading the race to the bottom. Just look Georgian, flying old Jazz planes for even less money!

As for comparing it to instructing, some guys instruct on the side. Personally, I don't like ab-initio instructing. I tried it, didn't like it, not going back. There are many that do like instructing and are good at it. The pay just sucks, so they leave. If your regular class 3 instructor made 60-70 grand a year, I bet there wouldn't be as many leaving.

[Adam Oke]

I'm the person that would be happy flying a dash 8 forever I dont care or even instruct that paid well.

It's all about lifestyle and not always necessary about all the money you can make, I've been there and done that.

I think that is the perfect attitude/mentality to have and exactly what I meant when I said I would fly a kite for the right pay/sched. A job is job. They call it work for a reason. Many of us are very fortunate to enjoy our job. But the whole idea here is to work so you eventually no longer need to work, all while working without it having a serious impact on your life.

I spent the better portion of a decade chasing money in aviation. I didn't care, and still don't care what I fly. I was in a niche portion of the industry that paid very well. It took me a good chunk of that portion to realize that life isn't all about money. I was ball and chain to work. No camping, no family near by, no close friends in the area, away from home, no pets due to schedule, no summer weddings, no beaches, the no list goes on.

Now I seek that work/money/lifestyle balance. I know what a lucrative livable wage is, and I know what sacrificing your life for work is like. I now know what I want to achieve in terms of lifestyle/work balance. It took a while...call me a slow learner! . Everyone's balance will be different and it will develop over time. Now the trick is trying to figure out the value in each sacrifice. The further you get away from small operators the more it become all about seniority number in order to gain the ability to choose your path. My advice is to be very cautious of your own path and try to jump around as little as possible to maintain your balance.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

With everyone talking about how not great the working conditions in terms of schedules at places like Jazz and georgian and others can be if you made a "great enough" salary or wage as a flight instructor and be home every night would you do that instead?

Thanks

Why would you want to be home every night? Isn't that part of the aviation adventure? Seeing the world?

[HansDietrich]

With everyone talking about how not great the working conditions in terms of schedules at places like Jazz and georgian and others can be if you made a "great enough" salary or wage as a flight instructor and be home every night would you do that instead?

Thanks

Why would you want to be home every night? Isn't that part of the aviation adventure? Seeing the world?

Some of us had a chance to get laid, at least once... and now have kids...

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Hardy har har
Guess it's different in corporate flying when you are home with your kids for 2 months straight and then you get a chance for a nice mid winters 3day somewhere warm

[goingnowherefast]

Hardy har har
Guess it's different in corporate flying when you are home with your kids for 2 months straight and then you get a chance for a nice mid winters 3day somewhere warm

That sounds like a pretty good schedule

Everybody wants a different schedule. There are companies that do 6 weeks on 6 weeks off and guys like it. Work their ass off for 6 weeks, then tour the world on their own time for 6 weeks. There are other companies that do 2-4 day pairings (airlines). Then some companies have you home almost every night. Not everybody joined aviation to spend 36 hours in Tokyo or Munich a couple times a month. Instructing is one of those jobs that has you home nearly every night.

[SuperchargedRS]

With everyone talking about how not great the working conditions in terms of schedules at places like Jazz and georgian and others can be if you made a "great enough" salary or wage as a flight instructor and be home every night would you do that instead?

Thanks

Why would you want to be home every night? Isn't that part of the aviation adventure? Seeing the world?

Some of us had a chance to get laid, at least once... and now have kids...

That sucks... gotta wear a rubber, man!