Blueshift wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:55 pmThanks for the info - it's very much appreciated. I'm surprised to hear the competitive requirements are at that level! Are those hired with 1500tt/704 only still upgrading in that timeframe?jorgeherrera.ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:44 pm I know a pilot from CJ and as per him morale is good, upgrade time is avg 2 years to left seat, and they are hiring with 1500tt 704 experience.
That’s a good point. I didn’t ask that but if you ask me I’d expect 704 guys to take longer than 2 years to upgrade unless you have thousands of hours and tons of command time from your 704 days.
Jazz or CargoJet?
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/cgi-bin/re ... &p25=&p34=jorgeherrera.ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:05 pmBlueshift wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:55 pmThanks for the info - it's very much appreciated. I'm surprised to hear the competitive requirements are at that level! Are those hired with 1500tt/704 only still upgrading in that timeframe?jorgeherrera.ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:44 pm I know a pilot from CJ and as per him morale is good, upgrade time is avg 2 years to left seat, and they are hiring with 1500tt 704 experience.
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That’s a good point. I didn’t ask that but if you ask me I’d expect 704 guys to take longer than 2 years to upgrade unless you have thousands of hours and tons of command time from your 704 days.
Upgrade requirements will not have changed from the above last CBA.
Once you have met this upgrade will be in order of seniority, skill and performance. Usually ascertained from results from last Sims and how you would fair in a leadership role.
Needless to say I don't think you would be looking at left seat on a widebody with less than 5000 hours. At 1500 starting and 400 hours a year you will realistically be looking at 8-10 years
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
I think the lifestyle killing you is referring to any cargo operator since you are predominantly flying all night which destroys the body over the long term.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
+1.Monorail Conductor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:26 pm Deconstructing the cargojet con you listed: night flying
How do you feel about pulling all nighters 14 times a month? If youre young and have a robust immune system, great. But the detrimental effects of night shift over time will have compounding effects on your physical and mental health as you get older. Maybe to put it in terms relative to Jazz, it would be like a block full of CDs, month after month, which to me is less than ideal. But if its only temporary and a stepping stone and you dont foresee yourself doing night flights into your 50s or 60s, then youll be well positioned for other jet jobs...
Don't care who you are the night shifts eventually do everyone in. It's just not sustainable on your body long term. It messes everything up.
Can one do it? Yeah, but it will take its toll.
I did night for 15 years. The first 5 in my early 20's were easy, then it got harder and harder. I've never felt better now that I don't do them anymore.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
I am in a similar situation and was considering making the switch to cargojet. I can't afford to stay at jazz given the FO pay unless I upgrade fast. Does anyone know if working 2-3 years at cargo jet as an FO would open up doors overseas or is a 767 type rating not that marketable internationally?
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Thanks for link. I think the 3500hrs total time and 1500hrs on type is the upgrade matrix most applicable to me. Still, that would certainly take a few years to reach.sicamore wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:20 pm Upgrade requirements will not have changed from the above last CBA.
Once you have met this upgrade will be in order of seniority, skill and performance. Usually ascertained from results from last Sims and how you would fair in a leadership role.
Needless to say I don't think you would be looking at left seat on a widebody with less than 5000 hours. At 1500 starting and 400 hours a year you will realistically be looking at 8-10 years
Is 400hrs a year the norm there? Surely a couple YHM/CVG-YYC/YVR/YEG flights per week and one CVG-YMX/YHM would be enough to average 80 hour blocks per month?
I would agree that night shift work doesn't seem overly desirable long-term. I'm in my 20s though, so I think I shouldn't have trouble handling it for a while. I'm more worried the effect it will have on my social life.tps8903 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:46 am +1.
Don't care who you are the night shifts eventually do everyone in. It's just not sustainable on your body long term. It messes everything up.
Can one do it? Yeah, but it will take its toll.
I did night for 15 years. The first 5 in my early 20's were easy, then it got harder and harder. I've never felt better now that I don't do them anymore.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Rmvd
Last edited by sicamore on Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
What are the pairings like at CJ? How many days
On the road max?
Thx
On the road max?
Thx
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Do you find the social life issue extremely difficult, with only 8 days worked/month and 400hrs per year?sicamore wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 am 400 is the norm yes. At the moment some captains may be doing 600 due to shortage.
As for social life, good luck on that. Otherwise in your 20s is the best time. It's not a bad job, pairings are fairly relaxed, weekends generally off somewhere, so flight days only about 8 days a month. Aircraft are exceptionally well maintained and management are very professional.
Union is about as useful as tits on a bull though.
Yeah, now would likely be the best time in terms of fatigue, but potentially not so in terms of life outside work.
Have you found the union has successfully improved schedules at least?
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
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Last edited by Picesprick on Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Nice. Thanks for the detailed post. One more question, is the training done in Canada or
US?
Thx
US?
Thx
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Wherever there are sim slots. Usually Atlanta or Miami. Recurrent in YVR. For now...
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
LOLPicesprick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 pm Would make for a stable long term career path if you dont need the glory of walking through the terminal with your hat on signing autographs like Leo, arm and arm with a bunch of hot flight attendants. Thats what I imagine im missing out on anyways.
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Morale is good? Maybe since they started carrying pot!
Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Picesprick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 pm With the new CBA just ratified, Pilots will bid 16 days a month. You now bid your stats in a 5 day block and a 4 day block, after 1 year you are alloted 3 weeks vacation, 4 after 10, 5 after 20. So you can deduct these of some of your months. This has been and will continue to be a contencious issue among the group, company wanted more days work, pilots didnt. They met in the middle. Pay saw some pretty big increases, 1st year fo 70k after 4 or 5 years your over 100k. 10 year fo tops at 119k right now with 2% annual increases across the board. Captain start is 125k 12 year is just over 200k, after 5 years your at 170k year. Overtime is 2x but its pretty hard to get.
Pairings usually start just after midnight and generally are 2-5 days ending anywhere from 1230 am till 9pm. its all about bidding days of work here so most guys will try to get the few pairings that leave at say 1155pm ( a day of work for an hour) and also the ones that get back earlier in the morning( another day of work), the few really good ones go senior. But it all depends on how many specific days off you want in there, the more guys try to nail down a schedule the less forgiving the schedule seems to end up, The first night is usually pretty tough unless you can get a good nap in the day before, but the duty days usually are not that long minus a few, so you suck up the first night and then I quote " get used to it" . But you are usually a bag of shit the day after a pairing when you get back at 4 am or something. For some reason its very hard to get 7-8 hours of sleep when you are going to bed at 6 or 7 am. Unlike when you were a teenager. You need to respect your sleep, keep track of it, try to get it, do what you can, ie exercise, melatonin, otherwise the job will tear you apart. If you can figure it out, its not all that bad.
Perdiem 3.75CDN hour, anywhere for duration on CBA, not indexed to inflation, why?? who knows.. which means you do ok in Canada but if you go to europe better carry a cooler.
Hotels are another irritant among the group, some of the locations your options for getting food are very limited, company didnt budge much and Union didnt fight very hard to get that changed. Bw, Hampton Inns, Holiday Inns, YHZ weekend get you the Westin downtown but its a senior run.
RRSP 3%,,,, yeah thats right 3 %,....goes up to 4 after 5 I think but im not double checking, 6% after 15 was another sweet score the negotiators got.
Medical is apparently very good and paid for by the company, but it is a very hard thing to compare IMO.
Work Life balance has been pretty good, seems like lots of time off, with the extra days of work that will effectively kick in next year we will see, might be a little buyers remorse when guys are working 16 days in a 30 day month.
Commuters can DH on company aircraft to and from where they live and we are just getting started with the myid travel program, nobody knows how easy it will be to travel but expectations are low.
Union has been all volunteer work for the last 5 years, in this contract we secured paid days for union duties so we shall see if that helps solidify some people in the MEC positions, Lots of people like to bitch about how innefective our union is and has been but nobody wants to step up and do the job, because it does seem like a thankless position. The last 5 years the union was toothless maybe going forward we can grow some baby teeth.
Company itself is solid, effectivley has a monopoly. Long term contracts and there size now make it very difficult for a competetor to break into the space. The growth opportunities are very promising. Would make for a stable long term career path if you dont need the glory of walking through the terminal with your hat on signing autographs like Leo, arm and arm with a bunch of hot flight attendants. Thats what I imagine im missing out on anyways.
Upgrade times now are at about 2-3 years
excuse any spelling or garammer mistakes, Im a cargo pilot
I hear per diems are around 15-20k per year. Does that sound about right?
Thanks!
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
Not really, a 4 day pairing is 360ish dollars, and if you work 16 days a month that's $1440x12 months is 18k.
How are you guys not getting that? Not working 16 days a month? Not all overnights, etc?
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?
FL007 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:14 pmNot really, a 4 day pairing is 360ish dollars, and if you work 16 days a month that's $1440x12 months is 18k.
How are you guys not getting that? Not working 16 days a month? Not all overnights, etc?
Most pairings get back at about 4 am or so, therefore you are not gone for entire 24 hour blocks for every day of work also including single day pairings, with 3 weeks vacation, and your 2 biddable stat weeks, your only working 16 days a month for 7 months of the year. After 10 years its down to 6 months of the year as you get 4 weeks vacation.